Subject:
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Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:39:56 GMT
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Viewed:
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1921 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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First of all, I’m not sure that I would worship any being for two
reasons:
Any entity who requires my worship isn’t worthy of my worship.
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Never said worship was required. Besides, if it is your ideal God, then
He wouldn’t require it, no?
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I think I presented this poorly. I was trying to articulate a few basic reasons
for worship, and my problems with those reasons.
Anyway, doesn’t God require worship, at least to achieve the professed reward?
I’m not saying that a non-worshipper should automatically get the prize, but the
non-worshipper should have the option of nonexistence after death, rather than
damnation. If the alternative is eternal punishment, then I’d say that worship
is required (or else!)
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The key response to God IMO is an attitude of gratitude.
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A poet, and he don’t even know it! Give me some latitude in your platitudes
about gratitude, dude.
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I am thankful for
my life and all of the blesses I have been given, and in response I have
decided to live my life the way in which I believe God would want. So
worship to me is celebrating God’s mercy and blessings with others in an
attitude of thanksgiving.
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Okay, I can accept that definition for your form of (and motivation for)
worship, but I don’t share it. I have seen no reason to conclude that God gave
me life or any of the subsequent pleasantries in that life, so it is not
reasonable for me to express gratitude to him, any more than I should thank the
mailman because my car started this morning.
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It is inevitable that imperfect humans proclaiming the Gospel will fall short
of the very message they bear. But I ask you: does this reflect poorly on
the message or the messager?
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Could be both, honestly. I would argue that if the Word is so important and if
it is divinely inspired, then God would have made sure that it comes through
in full-fidelity with stereo surround sound, rather than through a glass darkly.
I mean, what’s at stake?
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Hmmm. Most atheists I know have a pretty condescending attitude towards
religion.
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Tit for tat. I have seldom---correction: I have never met a
self-professed Christian who did not, upon learning that I’m atheist, make
some sort of “aww, that’s too bad” declaration, as if I have a mental
shortcoming to be pitied.
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Don’t you, by the same token, shake your head, if not to yourself, that such
people are, put kindly, clueless and generally ignorant?
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I did say “tit for tat,” after all. Or did you think I was proposing some
kind of breast-for-lace exchange?
I definitely grant that atheists can be condescending toward those who believe,
and this isn’t especially productive. Elsewhere I’ve commented on the stupidity
of using the term Brights to describe
non-believers, and I still think it’s a dumb title to have adopted.
But in discussions like ours, the tone is different, in that you and I are
arguing our strong and incompatible views, so it’s not out of place to get our
dander up a little. But if it’s just some random atheist and some random
non-atheist, then there’s no need to be a jerk in regular conversation, is
there?
When asked what I think about a guy who believe in this or that supernatural
phenomenon, I usually answer “I think that this is a part of his life that he
has not examined objectively and empirically.” I wouldn’t use those exact
words, but that’s basically what I try to convey. And I try not to judge the
person’s choice unless I’m asked “what do you think about that?”
I know, I know. Believers will object that they have examined their beliefs
objectively and empirically. If that’s the case, then I say let’s see the
evidence. This usually leads to “did you love your (insert deceased relative
here)?” That’s a fundamentally different question, to me, but we can discuss if
it you’d like.
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I can generally shrug it off, in much the same way
that it means nothing to me when people laugh at my utter ignorance of
baseball
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What??? Do you mean to sit there and tell me that you have no idea who won
the World Series in 1987 AND 1991?????
:-)
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Even if you put a newly unbanned assault rifle to my head, I couldn’t tell you
who played in the last World Series, Superbowl, or Stanley Cup Final (unless I
have access to the good ol’ Information Superhighway, of course!)
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I just find some questions are unadequately addressed by logical and
scientific analysis, and unfortunately, they are the BIG QUESTIONS:-/
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Would you care to pose some of those questions here? I suspect that some of
them are along these lines:
Why are we here?
Does life have meaning; if so, what is it?
Does the soul exist?
How was the universe formed?
Where is the universe?
Am I on the right track? Do you have others?
Dave!
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