Subject:
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Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:26:38 GMT
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Viewed:
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1535 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Brendan Powell Smith wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Brendan Powell Smith wrote:
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To stick with your analogy for a moment, can Michael Jackson, as a former
black person, call a currently black person the “N” word?
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You aren’t being serious.
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What I meant was this: I was once a Christian.
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Ah, okay; now I see where you were going with my hypothetical. With this
knowledge, I think we can dispense with hypotheticals.
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Out of curiosity, in your mind,
does that affect my right to criticize or poke fun at the Bible?
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Hmmm. Right? No. Yes. Legally, of course, you have every right to do what
you are doing and that is only right. Morally, I’m not so sure. For a
non-Christian to mock or criticize Christianity, I’d have to question motives.
The motives for mockery could probably be traced to intolerance and bigotry. So
I see no moral reason for a non-Christian to mock the Bible.
Now, as for criticism, especially in terms of literary, historical, ie study
tools for a deeper understanding of the Bible in order to strengthen one’s
faith, I’d be all for it. Again, the motivation is the key. Now, is it one’s
intention to debunk the Bible through these tools? Then again I would question
motives. The Bible is a faith book, and so trying to attack it from a
scientific perspective is a lost cause from the beginning and really misses the
point. So what would be the point?
Now, mocking and criticizing the Bible from a Christian who has rejected their
faith is even more problematic in my mind. You have obviously decided for
yourself that Christianity is a load and is no longer a serious matter for you.
It is now a subject for amusement, derision or even contempt. Why are you no
longer a Christian? Whatever the reason, it isn’t a good reflection on
Christianity in my mind. Christianity is now a lie to you, and so of course
your perspective of it will be tainted by that, and in a negative way.
To even decide to depict Biblical stories in LEGO betrays an attitude of
non-seriousness, and couple that with shocking and violent Biblical stories, and
you have the makings of a perfect, avant garde art piece that isn’t so concerned
about aesthetic beauty as it is jolting the sensibilities of the viewer. The
more lurid and controversial, the better. It is the perfect indictment of our
culture, and your work dovetails right into it. To non-Christians, it is
farcical and mockery; to Christians (in the know) it is offensive.
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Not that I think this is a very good analogy. Having dark skin is really
not analagous to subscribing to a religion.
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Skin color wasn’t the issue; it was a racial issue.
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I prefer to speak of these matters in terms of skin color, since I’m not
entirely sure I know what “races” are, and skin color is what most people seem
preoccupied with.
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For the record I agree with you; I was grasping for some double-standard
example.
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But my criticism of your analogy stands: a religion is a very different thing
than a race. A race is not a set of beliefs, and one has no option to change
their race.
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Yes. But that wasn’t where I was going with it.
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And whereas a non-black person calling a black person the “N” word is a pure
insult without supporting evidence, The Brick Testament is all evidence
without insult.
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As far as you know. Expanded below.
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You’ve missed my point. How about this: a Jewish comedian pokes fun at Rabbi
in a joke. A Muslim comedian pokes fun at a Rabbi in a joke. Is not one
perceived as anti-semitism and one not?
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Well, now you’re not dealing with races but with religions, and I see
religions as more akin to political parties, so let’s try this analogy:
A republican can poke fun at another republican, but is it wrong for a
republican to poke fun at a democrat? Is it wrong for a republican to
criticize the beliefs and practices of a democrat?
I’m not trying to *equate* religions with politics, I’m simply saying that I
see religions as much more easily comparable to political parties than they
are to races.
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I fear that my criticism of the BT is getting lost here. I feel like I’m
Michael Keaton in a scene from Gung Ho!:-)
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I appreciate the Christian and Jewish fans of The Brick Testament even if I
do not hold the same religious beliefs as they do. I am always happy to
give permission to ministers and Sunday school teachers who ask to use my
illustrations in their classes. I do not consider them “suckers”.
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Depending upon which they choose to use, I’d call them “idiots”.
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I do not
expect that their doing so will make atheists out of their students, nor
would it upset me if it made their students stronger believers in their
religion. I’m just glad they would be getting a chance to see these stories
presented in a frank manner,
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Why is that so important to you? Because you think that if people really knew
what was in the Bible, they would think twice about believing in it? I think
that you think that any rational person would reject the Bible if they saw it as
“frankly” you do.
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maybe get a little amusement, and be in a
better position to make up their own minds about whether or not these
stories (and not merely the illustrations) are praiseworthy.
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It’s interesting that you think that viewing the BT stories would put someone
in a better position to make a judgment on the merit of the story itself (or
even the Bible for that matter).
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Sure. First of all, The Brick Testament brings to light many Bible stories
that are often unknown or ignored. So certainly a person is in a better
position to judge a story if they see it on The Brick Testament than if they’d
never read any version of it.
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Reading the Bible isn’t about judging the veracity of its stories.
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And the Brick Testament presents Bible stories in a very frank manner--one
that is not clouded by a concern to make the stories jibe with a much later
theology or just more palatable to our modern sensibilities and moral
standards. So I think it is often more true-to-the-original than most other
retellings.
I would say that someone is in the best position to judge a Bible story after
reading it for themselves firsthand (preferably a few different translations
of it). I would recommend that to anyone, especially if they suspect my
retellings and illustrations are too skewed. I would hope that any Bible
illustrator would give that same advice.
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Personally, I feel that if one really wants to understand the Bible (OT for
starters), they need to study Judaism, Ancient History, Literary Criticism, and
Hebrew. Then the OT will start making sense. Seeing it depicted in LEGO from
some random English translation is hardly an impartial primer to it.
The BT isn’t serious, and if it’s not serious, then it is a joke. Of course
it’s a joke-- it’s the Bible depicted in LEGO, for crying out loud. It’s got
1x1 red tiles of blood flowing everywhere and glow-in-the-dark Holy Ghosts
floating around! It perverts the Bible and LEGO IMO, and that is why I think
people (non-Christians mostly) find the BT so fascinating. It is something new
and twisted.
But to people who embrace the OT as a part of their religion, it isn’t a joking
matter. They base their lives around it, and don’t usually appreciate it when
people mock them for it. It isn’t very respectful or civil behavior towards
them.
But Christians are taught to turn the other cheek and to forgive as Christ
forgave them, so you probably won’t get any flak about it (other than from me:-)
But stripped down, I think that is the message sent and received, if by only me.
But hey, you’ll probably have a metanoia experience and we will laugh about this
over a beer some day (or we could just laugh about it over a beer some day:-)
JOHN
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