Subject:
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Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:20:46 GMT
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Viewed:
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555 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti wrote:
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I’ve tried to stay out of this one because I am of two minds about it, but...
I just wanted to point out to Mike that morality aside, the laws in most
western countries probably do not allow you to kill someone who is fleeing
just as you are not allowed to lay unmarked traps for them while they are
entering a private place. The issue, as IIRC Kooties has already identified,
is one of matching the gravity of the offense with the crime. A related issue
may be one of uncertainty.
Scenario:
I catch a man fleeing my home. He is near the door. I have a pistol and am
at close range, yet I let the man go as he appears to have nothing with him
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Well in that specific case I would probably shoot the guy in the leg, kick him
in the head a couple time to make good and sure he is unconscious, tie him up,
and call the police. If that is illegal then I now know why the crime rate is so
high in this country.
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-- to all immediate appearances I have foiled whatever he had intended to do.
1) I later discover that the intruder has stolen something small but of great
personal or monetary value. Result: annoying but death is not justified.
2) I later discover that the intruder has damaged some things on his way in.
Result: annoying but death is not justified.
3) I later discover that the intruder has poisoned my dog to escape
detection. Result: annoying but death is not justified -- although I am
tempted to say this a grey area, the destruction or theft of chattels being a
killing offense at one time. A premium is placed on the value of living
things.
4) I later discover that the intruder has raped my SO. Result: annoying as
hell but death is not justified -- although I am tempted to say this a grey
area because rape has at times been a killing offense. A premium is placed on
the value of living things, and this also seems to consider quality of future
life.
5) I later discover that the intruder has killed my SO. Result: death is
justified.
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Well in my opinion the in last 3 possibilities death is justified.
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I think what I am trying to point out is the uncertainty involved in behaving
a particular way with facts not in evidence -- without a fuller knowledge of
the fairness of what one may do (Edit: We could easily go straight into a
discussion of the stupidity of the war with Iraq with similarly insufficient
evidence). At the same time I note that many scenarios have grey area
outcomes, where death may have been justified depending on how one views the
gravity of the given situation.
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Well my position is to not give someone the benefit of the doubt when they have
broken into my property.
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Hypothetically:
Given modern forensics you not only have to shoot an intruder dead so that
there is only one version of the story of how it happened, but you also have
to shoot him while he is facing you and hopefully holding a weapon. According
to most jurisdictions in the U.S. it would probably be better if the intruder
is actually inside your house. If you shoot him inside your house and he
falls out a window you are probably screwed. Then again, if you dispose of
the body in such a way that it can never be found you may have restored your
former situation almost completely. If the scenario were set in a black
comedy, you would have then disposed of the body with something valuable on
it such that you then need to recover the valuable item. To futher complicate
the situation a neighbor may have seen or heard you...Etc. Etc. Etc.
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I am still baffeled at the ‘logic’ of punishing someone for defending thier own
property/lives.
-Mike Petrucelli
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