Subject:
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Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:55:16 GMT
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Viewed:
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454 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote:
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No but none of those are criminal acts or occuring in my home potentially
threating my life either. Frankly, I can’t belive you think it is okay for
someone to break into you home as long as they are only stealing?
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And I can’t believe that you can’t read. It’s not okay for somone to steal.
That said, it’s not okay for you to kill someone for stealing. Do the words
‘punishment fir the crime’ ring any vague bell? Read and come back with
something relavent to add to the conversation instead of wiggling and
purposely misconstruing or I might start calling you John.
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Dude, how obtuse can you be? Mike has REPEATEDLY told you that he isn’t willing
to risk his life on the off chance that a burgler isn’t there to rape/and or
kill, but simply and harmlessly to steal. How can the punishment fit the crime
when you are not sure of the criminal’s intent??? Are you willing to bank your
life or worse your family’s life on it? What you are basically saying is that
sparing the life of some deadbeat lowlife is more important that protecting your
family. Sorry, doesn’t add up.
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Self defense doesn’t apply unless you are being personally
attacked. Someone pilfering off with your television is not an attack on
you.
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Oh, really. How can you be so sure? If you see the criminal, maybe he now
thinks that you might “finger” him, and so since dead men tell no tails, he now
caps you. Not that far of a stretch, my friend.
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Do not rape, do not murder, do not steal, these are rules by which persons
of any religion can follow. All acts of evil stem from breaking these
three rules. If one does not follow them, then they should expect that
their death is a potential consequence of their actions.
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And this is civilized? Jaywalking warrants the death penalty?
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A classic straw man, Dave.
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Jaywalking is not a variant of rape, murder, or stealing, its just stupid.
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It’s also against the law. And your rationale is to shoot people who are
breaking the law because if they break one, i.e. breaking into your house,
they will end up threatening you at some point, therefore they must be shot.
How’s that for misconstruing?
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Perfect. Please save the straw for the horses. Mike never advocated shooting
lawbreakers.
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If someone breaks into my house I am not going to risk my life to
determine whether they are there to rape, murder, or steal. I am simply
going to make sure they are not a threat to myself or anyone else ever
again. Any sane person would do the same thing.
-Mike Petrucelli
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And if someone steals my cloak, I’ll offer him my shirt. Oh wait, that’s
just the teachings of no one terribly important.
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Are you so sure he only wants your cloak? Maybe he wants simply to kill you.
And dead men are in no position to give anyone anything (except life insurance
payouts;-) Ever see the movie Grand Canyon? Steve Martin, as he gets out of
his Ferrari, gets held up by a man who wants his rolex. Martin facetiously
offers him the keys to the car and says “here, take the Ferrari!”. The guy’s
response is to shoot him in the kneecap and reply, “I just want the rolex,
a**hole”. The whole point is that you never know Dave.
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You are making a life-threating assumption that the person breaking into
your house is only there to steal.
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And you are taking his life on the equal assumption that he is bbreaking into
your house to kill you. So where’s your point? Again, statistics show that
break-ins number in the thousands on thousands, whereas killings during
breakins number in the 10’s. So I think my odds are beter that the guy
B&E’ing into my house has more likelyhood to steal my shoes than to steal my
life.
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If you are willing to gamble your life and the life of your family on some
stupid odds, go right ahead. Sounds silly to me.
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Shooting someone who hasn’t specifically threatened you is manslaughter, or
worse, murder. Again, stealing a television is not a direct threat to you.
Justice must be served, but Justice must be proportional to the crime
committed. Anything else is insane, and your idea ‘shoot first’ is insane.
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I can tell that no one has ever broken into your house and stolen something.
The violation one feels is quite a surprising emotion frankly. You suddenly
feel very unsafe, untrusting, and very angry.
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No, assuming the worst and acting accordingly (whether that is ‘shoot
first’, stab first, piano wire, gouching the persons eyes out, or anything
else) is not insane it is intelligent. Why would I wait until it is too late
to determine the intent of someone who breaks into my home?
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No, it’s ‘gun toting yahooism’ and if you don’t like being saddled with the
description, don’t be one.
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At least you can then cop that plea and get off on a lighter sentence.
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Why would I be arrested for defending my property from invasion? Is this so
called ‘civil’ society you live in that stupid that they seek to lock up
those that are willing to defend themselves rather than calling 911 and
praying like helpless little children?
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Why shouldn’t you be arrested for killing someone who hadn’t threatened your
life? He was 16 years old and was running away (supposedly) when he was shot
in the back. Doesn’t sound like much of a threat to me.
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As I understand it, that wasn’t the first time that punk and the 30x loser had
robbed the man. That is what prompted him to go out and buy the gun. Part of
the issue is that people living out in the middle of nowhere don’t feel very
safe because of limited law enforcement. Criminals obviously know this and so
folks out in the countryside are getting robbed more and more frequently and
they are getting sick of it, and are deciding to defend their property
themselves.
JOHN
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