Subject:
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Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.market.auction
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Date:
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Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:26:19 GMT
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Viewed:
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889 times
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In lugnet.market.auction, jdiri14897@email.msn.com (John DiRienzo) writes:
> I would contest that a more reasonable way to get out of the bid is to
> let the seller know well before the auction ends that the bidder is unable
> to pay for what he has bid. Then that bid can be canceled. I see this as
> an easier and more honest solution than creating an alias. We are free to
> disagree, but I feel that this is a more honest way.
Sure, of course it's more honest if the bidder bows out honorable way. But
not everyone is going to do that. If you allow people to renege on their
high bid without any penalty or record-blackening, the result over time is
many frustrated sellers as many acts of bid sabotaging. So there has to be
a penalty for reneging. As long as there is a penalty for reneging, there
are going to be people that try to figure out ways around the penalty. So
you might as well allow people to lower their private maximums. If you
don't, you'll spend all of your time either policing the system or
responding to complaints.
> Plus, it keeps bidders
> honest with themselves from the get-go, without having the ability to
> repeal a bid, except in extreme situations.
What qualifies as an "extreme situation"? And what sort of black mark goes
on the bidder's record for calling upon relief from an extreme situation?
> > It is far better to design the system to allow such behavior via
> > legitimate means than to allow it only via trickery, especially when
> > it is a commonly requested and useful feature.
>
> I concur - if this is an often requested feature, maybe it should be
> implemented. Still, as a seller, I don't like bidders being able to scare
> other bidders away from my auction.
But you have no choice. The issue is a moot one: A bidder can always
attempt to scare away other bidders in your auction, choosing from a myriad
of techniques, and there is absolutely nothing whatsoever that you or I or
anyone else as a seller can ever do about it.
> This is a personal preference, of
> course, and I do understand that no auction can suit all of my
> preferences, and everyone else's. Your basis, though, I disagree
> with. It assumes that people will act in a dishonest way - which
> is a certainty. However, to circumvent the dishonest practice by
> allowing it in a different form is IMO not the right solution.
I think you misunderstand. The practice of making large bid jumps is not
dishonest -- not by any stretch of the imagination. Show me an auction or
barter or negotiation system anywhere in history or in the present where the
jumps are limited by rule to relatively small amounts and I'll show you a
system that participants are wasting their time in, are acting dishonestly
in, and are frustrated with.
> Either way, some auctions may allow it, and some won't, so its moot.
Actually, all auctions allow it. Yes, all auctions. It is mathematically
impossible to design an auction system which prevents it so long as you
don't control the minds and completely limit the intercommunication of the
bidders. ("It" being the orchestration of large bid jumps.) So it's a moot
issue for a different reason. :)
> > > [$60 vs. $61]
> > [agreement]
> I am pleased that for this we can see eye to eye. With all this
> discussion, at least we have come up with one applicable adjustment. With
> the number of complaints about various auctions, the only way to improve
> them is to debate, and decide what needs to be and can be made better.
Amen to that!
> One last point regarding eBay. The system which is so unfair, and causes
> so many people frustration also causes many people pleasure. As with any
> kind of "system", those who understand and know how to play (or cheat) the
> system are able to be successful, and enjoy that success. So, the same
> features which are aggravating to some, are also beneficial and pleasing to
> others. [...]
How do those two classes of people relate (those deriving pleasure from it
and those being frustrated by it)? Is it a 50-50 mixture? 60-40? 20-80?
Would your mother or your grandmother derive pleasure or frustration from
it? How about a grade school kid? How about high school kid on summer
break?
--Todd
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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| Todd Lehman wrote in message ... (...) unable (...) as (...) to (...) I don't know if eBay spends ANY time policing their system. I am sure they do, but its not evident. The feedback thing seems to be the main thing thats used. And if you fail to (...) (25 years ago, 22-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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| (...) can't (...) new (...) address) (...) I would contest that a more reasonable way to get out of the bid is to let the seller know well before the auction ends that the bidder is unable to pay for what he has bid. Then that bid can be canceled. (...) (25 years ago, 22-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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