Subject:
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Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.market.auction
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Date:
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Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:11:53 GMT
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Viewed:
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912 times
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In lugnet.market.auction, John DiRienzo writes:
> > > About the issue of whether new bids have to beat the proxy by the • increment
> > > amount, I say this: as long as I can't be sniped at the last minute, I
> > > don't care. If someone beats me by a small amount or a large amount, if
> > > I'm still willing to bid higher, I will. But if I don't have time to • make
> > > another bid, I (and the seller) are effectively screwed.
>
> Now wait, screwed by who? To blame the auction system is just a way of
> shifting the blame - you knew before hand when the auction would end and
> could at any time have raised your proxy, if you were willing to pay more.
> You are aware that its likely someone will at least attempt to outbid you in
> the last few minutes of the auction. Maybe you "screwed" yourself and the
> seller, but the auction system is not to blame.
I don't know about other people, but I tend to go into an auction (more often
a parts auction than an auction server, but the principle still applies) with
two things. A maximum budget, and a list of things I want. so if I'm looking
at A and B, and have a maximum of $20.00, there's a huge variety of prices
that can apply. Most of the options open to me involve being able to
reconsider either lot when I get outbid. If I go with your logic above, I bid
$10 on each, and leave it. What if A goes for $12 and B goes for $3? I've
only got 1 lot that I wanted, and I still had budget available. If I was able
to re-evaulate each time I got outbid (i.e. not a snip-able system), I could
keep bidding on lot A for another 5 bucks.
I know there's some holes in the logic, but the point is there. I usually
know how much I'm willing to spend on something, but I can't very readily
predict how much I _can_ spend on something. Does that make sense?
> > > So the problem with eBay once again come back to the fact that it is • based
> > > on fixed ending times.
>
> > Well, that's ONE of the problems.
>
> Some see it as a problem, however, if you place your bid before the auction
> ends, in the amount you are willing to pay, you should either get the item
> or someone else will get it for a higher price. Thats how all auctions are,
> right? To some, especially sellers, the beauty of eBay is that they know
> when the auction will end. There will always be varied opinions on this,
> since you can't have it both ways. I tend to look at it more like a live
> auction. You go to an auction, hang out til what interests you is being bid
Except that in a live auction, it doesn't end at a set time. It ends when
people stop bidding. You can't snipe a live auction. Period. eBay, you can.
The live auction example breaks down FAST in comparison to on-line auctions in
general, and even more-so with fixed-time auctions.
> on and then bid on it. You don't bid a week in advance, and you don't call
> in a new bid every couple days. Its much simpler and faster this way. Most
> eBay auctions go for a week, so you have a whole week to browse, decide what
Except that the week e-bay provides isn't to browse - it's to bid. If that
week was to browse, then you wouldn't be able to bid. No, that week is what
ebay suggests as the optimal length for an auction to get the best exposure
compromised with the desire for a fast buck.
> to bid on and then, near the end, place your bid. Fortunately, if you
> aren't going to be able to bid at the end, you can place a proxy ahead of
> time, which is exactly like leaving your friend in the auction house to bid,
> in case you have to go outside for some fresh air. So, as you see, I don't
> feel that the fixed ending time is a big problem. I liked it better for the
> short time that eBay allowed 14 day auctions, which gave (more) people a
> longer browsing time, and a better chance of finding the item they want to
> bid on. I like the longer length auctions being offered by SC and some of
> the other new auction sites.
>
> For the other point about retracting a proxy, and replacing it with a
> firm bid, I still disagree. I do not understand the advantage of having two
> types of bids in one auction. Somebody enlighten me. Anyway - again, on
I recently saved a huge amount of time and effort by using firm bids in MA10.
Another bidder and I spent about a week dickering back and forth over a lot at
$.10 and $.15 increments - until the other bidder did a hard bid, jumping the
price $2.00. I responded in kind, (back and forth a bit) and about 3 weeks of
bidding war was dealt with in a day and a half.
There is also the intimidation factor of using a hard bid - often (as I
suspect was being attempted in my last bid) a hard bid of a sufficent amount
can be used as a sort of "back off, I really want this item" sign. Other
people will see $.10 incriments suddenly turn into $2.00 incriments, and
rethink how much they want an item.
> eBay, it does say you can never retract a bid as you place your bid.
> However, if you have a dire emergency, and contact the seller prior to the
> end of auction, the seller himself can cancel your bid. Even if the auction
> has ended, the majority of eBay's (and other auction's) sellers are human
> beings, and understand the plights of fellow men, and will work with a
> person who has sudden financial distress. :-) So, the reasoning behind
> being able to remove a prior bid seems useless. I can't say that its a
> better or worse method, just different, but would like to know how others
> see it as a better method.
It isn't allowing someone to retract a bid. (an important distinction) It is
allowing someone to rethink what their "max" ceiling is. There have been e-
bay auctions where I've put a proxy on something, and later thought "what
drugs was I on? There's no way (x) is worth that!" but with eBay, I'm stuck
with it.
For all intents and purposes, it serves minimal pratical purpose, except
giving a bidder more freedom and control over how they bid and what they bid.
As such, to paraphrase Todd, I think it's a Good Thing.
James
http://www.shades-of-night.com/lego/
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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| (...) That makes perfect sense, yes! And you can always scrounge together another $.50 or $1.00 if you really need to at the last moment. This is why it's so important to have a re-review period. There are two things that hurt the most in auctions: (...) (25 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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