Subject:
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Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.market.auction
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Date:
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Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:28:47 GMT
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Viewed:
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894 times
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>
>
> Derick Bulkley wrote:
> >
> > The bidding mechanism also has some new functionality.
> >
> > Assume the current lot is open with no bids and a $10 minimum. Next, • assume it
> > is an Airport Shuttle - built once.
> >
> > I make a firm bid of $150, fine. I then make a proxy bid of $400. The • net
> > result is I now have a proxy bid at $150 with a max of $400.
> >
> > Then the phone bill comes. I'm feeling a bit poor. Now I make a firm • bid of
> > $200. Net result - I have a firm bid of $200. I put a STOP order on my • proxy.
> >
> > Then I win the lottery, and submit a proxy bid of $600. Net result: a • proxy
> > bid of $200 with a max of $600.
> >
> > I sure hope somebody can appreciate this ;-)
>
> Well, I can appreciate the technical elegance but I'm not sure I think
> this is a good thing or not. Basically you're saying that as a bidder,
> you can retract the "secret" part of your bid, as long as it hasn't been
> revealed yet.
>
> In your scenario, if I came along and put in a 375 proxy just before you
> retracted your 400, it would be too late. Would it not be better to
> train bidders to think about what they bid, realising that they have to
> mean it?
>
>
> --
> Larry Pieniazek http://my.voyager.net/lar
> FDIC Know your Customer is wounded, thanks to you, but not dead...
> See http://www.defendyourprivacy.com for details
> For me: No voyager e-mail please. All snail-mail to Ada, please.
> - Posting Binaries to RTL causes flamage... Don't do it, please.
> - Stick to the facts when posting about others, please.
> - This is a family newsgroup, thanks.
For all the condemnation eBay recieves, I still believe it is one of the
best systems made. The system described above is not good at all, IMO, if
it allows a person to make a bid, then withdraw it later. And what is the
advantage of a firm bid opposed to a proxy bid? For the buyer I see no
advantage - he could, possibly, have won the item for a lower price with the
proxy system, and can still be outbid on his firm bid. It is bad for the
seller if firm bids are made, as it reduces the number of potential bidders.
I have not seen the auction being described, but if I have a correct
understanding of its operation, I do not find it superior to eBay.
In another post, there is some argument about the minimum bid increments
for eBay and Auczilla. With eBay, a new bidder does not have to beat a
prior proxy bid by the minimum bid increment to be high bidder. In
Auczilla, the new bidder must bid at least the previous proxy plus the
minimum increment to secure the high bid. I can see some reason for
argument here, but not much. It was said that an item with a previous proxy
bid of $100 could be secured by a later bidder with only a bid of $100.01,
which is true, but whats the problem? It requires a bit of luck to place a
bid just 1 cent over the (unknown) proxy bid in place, and although it does
happen, I can not see how it is a reward to a later bidder, or that it is
advantageous for a sniper. If the later bidder only bid $100, he would then
know the previous bidder's max, and be able to rebid, anyway. If the second
bidder is willing to pay 1 cent more (or even $2.25 where the increment is
$2.50) then the seller deserves to sell to the highest possible bidder.
Really, with a proxy bidding system, I see no reason for an increment
whatsoever - it can only benefit bid manipulation. Without minimum bid
increments, there is no way to discover a prior proxy and bump it to its
max, there would be more risk involved for the person attempting to bump the
bid, in that he could easily overtake the bid, which is far from his
objective. Eliminate the miminum bid increment and you essentially
eliminate the danger of bid manipulations, because they become too risky.
Another factor that can be added is not allowing bids in cents, but only in
whole (my preference), half, or even quarter dollars. I still maintain, as
from an earlier thread, that although eBay (or any auction with proxy
bidding) is susceptible to bid manipulation, it does not occur frequently,
and is not a reasonable cause for eBay animosity or for an adjustment to the
way the auction (eBay) operates.
As a user of eBay, I can not complain. In my current auctions, I have
attempted to put a damper on sniping, by ending all the items at the same
time. However, this will only be effective if people are trying to bid on
more than one of my items (quite possible). This is my only complaint, both
as a buyer and seller, of the eBay system - sniping is bad for both, and its
unfortunate that a fix has not been found. The new auction site which
extends the auction in the event of a very late bid is on the right track,
but still has other inadequacies - most importantly, a small market.
--
Have fun!
John ( jdiri14897@email.msn.com ) remove NOSPAM:
John's Lego Web Trade Page:
http://www114.pair.com/ig88/lego/index.htm
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Larry Pieniazek wrote in message <371DB855.329F033@voyager.net>...
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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| On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:28:47 GMT, "John DiRienzo" <jdiri14897@email.msn.com> wrote: [stuff about eBay, and proxy bidding, and bid increments] About the issue of whether new bids have to beat the proxy by the increment amount, I say this: as long as (...) (25 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
| | | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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| In lugnet.market.auction, John DiRienzo writes: <snippage> (...) Todd answered most of your points much more sensibly than I could, but I still want to reply this one. Any system (auction or otherwise) that encourages unfair activity, deserves at (...) (25 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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