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(...) I don't see how you could construe it as a personal attack. He explicitly said that he thought you WEREN'T responsible for the error. Besides, even if he DID think you were responsible, it was him pointing out the error, not accusing you of (...) (20 years ago, 22-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) SNIP (...) I don't care what you think. I've detailed the awnsers to every one of your questions elsewhere in the thread. Others have agreed with me. This is not a debate forum. If you are looking for a fight move on. Ken (20 years ago, 22-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Hi Ken, I don't think David is looking for a fight. I think many of us are curious about this because it is all so public. You obviously felt that Larry's comments were a personal attack against you, and first I want to acknowledge to you that (...) (20 years ago, 22-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) What can be more clear than the original post? Followed by the fact that instead of a simple appology to the library and NILTC that he had no buissnes spoiling their post he continues to make excusses and avoid responsibility. Conduct quite (...) (20 years ago, 22-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Thank you Todd, This has nothing to do with the exchange between Larry and Ken, but since I wanted to comment on your last paragraph I see no better place to post. As a member I appreciate you stating that a "feeling" is valid, and that it is (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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Hi Ken, (...) We're talking about this post: (URL) you feel that his associating your name with LEGO Brand Retail was a personal attack? Did you find his wording involving the words "messing up" hurtful? Was it the act of replying publicly to make a (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) No, but divulging personal info without permission is obviously a violation of TOU (...) Hurtful no, but an obvious attack especilly when he himself has been so picky within debate forums where there should be more latitude for this type of (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Ok, I'm looking at the ToU agreement: (URL) do you mean that his divulging of your association with LEGO without your permission violated point #6 of the Discussion Group Terms and Conditions? That is to say, do you feel your privacy was (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) There is no clause that say’s it’s ok to divulge personal information if you didn’t know the person did not want it divulged. In fact it say’s exactly the opposite. If you don’t specifically have permission it is wrong. Friends could perhaps (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Assuming the information is "personal" rather than "common knowledge". (...) I'm not sure what Ken means here, some elaboration might be helpful. What is it that I've been picky about, exactly? And how does my being "picky" correlate to the (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) That is true. (...) I don't think that it explicitly says the opposite, but regardless, you have a point. On the other hand, if Larry divulged personal information about you without knowing that it was private, do you think it is accurate to (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) That wasn't for you to decide. (...) “I can't imagine him messing up this spectactularly." (...) Up untill you felt the need to screw with a public invitation and further can't take responsibility for your actions I felt no animosity. (...) (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) I'm not sure it's a given. What consequences do you feel are directly attributable to my actions? Please be specific by giving the specific action I took, and the consequence that directly followed? (...) I'm not sure you've demonstrated that. (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) The attacking part came with the messing it up part it's an other issue. (...) What happend within a smaller group is not an invitation to take it public. (...) No I feel fired. Ken (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) If you missed them go back and re-read the previous postings. (...) It's pathetic that you can carry on with this and feel you have any credibility as a Lugnet administrator. -Ken (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Do me a favour and explain it again for me, because I have read the previous postings, and I didn't see what the specific consequences of this asserted privacy violation were. We're going really slowly here to make sure that there is no (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Again the facts have been posted multible times It's a waste of time to repost them. (...) Apparently there is nothing that can help. The facts have been laid out several times. All you want to do is obfuscate the facts and parse the words. (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) I think Ken means that your correcting the word "Legos" was being picky. (...) I'm not precisely sure, but I think Ken felt that the pickiness slighted the NILTC announcement. (...) Do you mean that you think Ken bears you animosity now? Ken, (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Can we talk a little bit more about the messing it up issue? Do you think Larry was attacking you personally or NILTC as a whole by replying to the NILTC invitation? He has said since that his intention was not to attack you or anyone, but (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) No, he was talking about past postings to off-topic.debate, near as I can tell, so I don't think so. (...) I think so, yes. Not at all justified, but yes. (...) Certainly. It's written all over it, in the word choices used. (...) No. (...) (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Refresh my memory on what a mundane is? (...) Well, I *think* that Ken read that meaning in what you wrote. The reason I think this is because he quoted that passage back to you on another node in this thread, and it's also what first came to (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Well since you "called" I came, and by no means do I claim to be a conflict resolutions manager nor a therapist (I just play one on Lugnet). I want to resist commenting directly on particulars because I truly do not want to add fuel to a (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Funny I've found quite a few "reasonable" people who found it offensive. Some of whom have posted it this thread. (...) It doesn't really matter what your view is because the TOU is very clear. Personal information will not be divulged with (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) As I have said the whole thread would not have occurred had he been man enough to apologize to NILTC and the library. He did apologize to me but then went forward with all this obfuscation and justification. His apologies are apparently (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Others may have aggeed with you, but Dave and I do not. So again, where does that get us. Seriously, you really have to stop playing the 'my camp is bigger or better than your camp' card. As faras I can see, the admins don't agree with your (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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In lugnet.admin.general, Ken Nagel wrote: <snip> (...) <snip> (...) If rtlToronto got their knockers in a knot everytime that someone did this to one of our 'official event announcement' invitations here at LUGNET, we wouldn't do anyhthing. I don't (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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<snip> *cough* THat's suppose to be "knickers" in a knot... *cough*... Dunno if that was a Freudian slip or anything, though, sometimes a carrot is just a carrot... Dave K -who really does find humour in the most unlikely places... (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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<Snip> See, you miss a few hours due to being snowed in and you fail to see that the resolution is being worked out with the admins... So I shut up now. Dave K -gives a concrete example of 'read all before you post'... (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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"Todd Lehman" <tsl@tsl.bu.edu> wrote in message news:IArA5u.DqD@lugnet.com... [ ... snipped ... ] I too have been catching up, I was out of town for a week with minimal connectivity. Boy, what a mess to come back to. (...) I would be shocked if Ken (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Ken, I'm sorry that you felt hurt by what Larry wrote. Larry has since apologized to you for the comments which you found offensive. If others in NILTC, or at the library, call upon Larry for an apology, I've no doubt he would apologize to (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Assuming you do not mind other peoples point of view since you are doing all this in the public forums I would like to step in and give my thoughts on this one point. Ken's working situation IS and WAS personal information. So what if Ken has (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Wow. Thanks for catching that mistake. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote "personal" above. I guess I was thinking "personal private" and accidentally wrote "personal." Sorry for the confusion on the wording and thanks again for the (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Ok - no worries. It did strike me as odd you would say it was not personal information. But I do agree it was not private information - but IMHO that does not make it "ok" for others to be posting it unless said person has said it was ok. You (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Please-Ken (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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In lugnet.admin.general, David Koudys wrote: Snipped unnecessary post (...) If your looking for a fight head back to one of the debate forums. Ken (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) I want to perform an experiment here to determine if this stance on revealing of personal information is reasonable. 1. Is it reasonable to say that Todd Lehman's being an AFOL is personal information? 2. Todd certainly has communicated that (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) I didn't ask for his apology but he did but then he turned around and started his campaign of justification and obfuscation. He still owes the library and NILTC an apology not that his apologies seem to be worth anything. (...) If that's the (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) In lugnet.admin.general, Ken Nagel wrote: Snipped unnecessary post (...) If your looking for a fight head back to one of the debate forums. Ken (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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In lugnet.admin.general, Mike Walsh wrote (...) So as I mentioned to Todd I can now post anything I want because if I'm able to find it out it can't be an invasion of privacy.-Ken (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) SNIP (...) No, he flies it like a flag and has widly disseminaeted it himself. If I were to find out something as mundane as his political affiliation it would be wrong for me to post it without his permission. Somewhere someone has that (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) You're twisting words here Ken. What Todd is saying is that you (not somebady else) posted this infomation in what could be construted as a public forum (the Yahoo group) without saying that you considered this infomation to be private. (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Where did the library call for his apology? Where did NILTC? And since you deem Larry's apologies as worthless anyway, why are you so adamantly pursuing it? (...) First you're pissed at Larry for what any outsider would interpret as a (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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"Ken Nagel" <knandjn@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:IAt0LL.1AKF@lugnet.com... (...) [ ... snipped ... ] (...) able to (...) It's a gray area for sure and like just about anything which is gray, you can find a corner case which doesn't fit the (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Well I disagree that Yahoo groups are necessaily public. If you can only join with the consent of the group moderator, and the messages are only available to members, I would consider it very bad form to repeat publically anything that is (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Timeout (was Re: "Some pigs...")
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The many personal insults and excessive crossposting by Ken Nagel in this thread have earned Ken a one-week timeout from posting on LUGNET, beginning immediately. It's unfortunate that Ken was let go from his employer. The circumstances of Ken's end (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Good point about the publicness of the Yahoo group. It equates more to a party at a private home. Still, I would not expect someone to not share information discovered at a private party. In fact, one of my examples was going to be if I post a (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | (canceled)
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| | Re: Timeout (was Re: "Some pigs...")
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(...) As with all timeouts, Ken's return after the timeout period has expired is subject to indicating understanding of why the timeout occured, and an agreement to abide by the ToS. The choice on whether to abide by the ToS is completely up to Ken, (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs"
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(...) Over the years Todd has made his stance on the hobby a VERY well known stance. Plus, we are ON Lugnet so we all know this. And when you talk about Lugnet you will prob also talk about Todd. When you run a public site such as this and basically (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Timeout (was Re: "Some pigs...")
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Now I understand that ken is bullheaded and may have justly received this timeout however I do agree that an apology is in order. Larry’s so called bad joke was insulting to me, as well as other NILTC members. Now I know ken could care less about an (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Timeout (was Re: "Some pigs...")
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-snip- Thank you for giving us the perspective of NILTC. Up until now, Ken has been speaking on behalf of a number of people (NILTC and the Library) - and I've been curious on their take on this. (...) Does this mean you are no longer a member? No (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Timeout (was Re: "Some pigs...")
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(...) Are you asking as an official representative of NILTC? I'm just asking to make sure it's understood that you're speaking for NILTC in this instance. (...) Please see about a third of the way down this post, which addresses that subject: (URL) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Timeout (was Re: "Some pigs...")
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(...) techicly i'm not an official represenitive anymore since i'm no longer an active member. however since i created the club along with tim courtney and brian willams i still retain the right to protect my investment. so yes in this instance i am (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Timeout (was Re: "Some pigs...")
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(...) I have refrained from entering this "discussion" but I feel I need to insert my .02 and then back out again. Here is the deal: Ken's announcement was the joke; Larry only had the hubris to point it out. Whoever wrote the announcement, while (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | Re: Timeout (was Re: "Some pigs...")
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(...) "On behalf" is different than being a representative of the club. I know through personal communications that Tim Courtney was not offended by Lar's post. I'm still curious about how the club feels. (...) I hope you realize that the Admins (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | Apologies (was Re: Timeout
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(...) (some, but apparently not all) (...) I'm sorry that some members of NILTC took offense at my joke. In particular, Ondrew, I am sorry that you took offense. It is regrettable. I may not necessarily think it's reasonable to take offense so, but (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Apologies (was Re: Timeout
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(...) Larry, if you're so busy dealing with Lugnet issues (URL) I would suggest the quickest resolution would be to just apologise "to anyone that may be offended" in the original thread. ROSCO (20 years ago, 24-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Timeout (was Re: "Some pigs...")
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(...) tim isin't a member anymore and hasn't been involved for close to 2 years. (...) then ask them! niltc@niltc.org the only reason they haven't replyed to this allready is because they are tired of all of the ranting and other B.S. that goes on (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | Re: Apologies (was Re: Timeout
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(...) THANK YOU . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. (20 years ago, 25-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | Re: Timeout (was Re: "Some pigs...")
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(...) You seem to be implying that answering Ondrew's email was NOT a Lugnet (admin) issue, or was less important than other issues Lar (and other admins) may have been addressing. If that is indeed what you mean, then I would strongly disagree. (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | Re: Timeout (was Re: "Some pigs...")
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(...) One year :-) -Tim (20 years ago, 25-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | Re: Timeout (was Re: "Some pigs...")
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(...) That's true, Ondrew, the large amount of time that LUGNET has required from the admin team lately is not your problem. Unfortunately, when issues that have been dealt with (as this one has been) are reopened with repeats of insinuations and (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jan-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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