Subject:
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Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 20 Apr 2003 04:22:11 GMT
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Viewed:
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741 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Frank Filz writes:
> Terry Prosper wrote:
> >
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> >
> > > I'll admit to not having a great deal of digging on this topic, but when I
> > > did some superficial searches, I found things like stoning to death for
> > > adultery, 100 lashes for fornication, cutting off hands for theft, testimony
> > > of women or infidels counts only for 1/2 the testimony of male muslims, and
> > > other features that suggest that it may not be a very just system of law.
> >
> > Most like USA's death penalty. Who are we to decide what is right or wrong?
> > This is called a cultural clash. In the Muslim culture, Adultery may be one
> > of the worst thing a person can do in his/her life. If so, it would be
> > logical for this person to be executed. Just as USA executes people who do
> > certain crimes because these crimes are considered awful. By not judging on
> > the crimes themselves because they reflect our values, which are certainly
> > different from other cultures' values, but by trying to understand the logic
> > behind the culture, then we see that Muslims and Christians have 99% of
> > their value system in common. But of course, people only see the
> > differences, which are, at first glance, striking, but in fact, they're
> > almost exactly the same.
>
> You seem to be saying we can't judge other cultures. Can we judge
> people? Can we judge groups of people? How many people have to follow
> the same idea before we can't judge it? I would point out that many
> wrongdoers in the world believe that they are doing the best thing for
> the world.
>
> Of course I also judge our own system harshly for it's use of the death
> penalty. But I do place it several steps above Sharia for several
> reasons:
>
> - For the most part the death penalty is limited to crimes that have
> resulted in a fatality.
>
> - We have a system of appeals that at least makes a concerted effort to
> re-examine cases.
>
> - Our system is more and more recognizing that improper convictions are
> made, and that the application of the death penalty is unfair.
>
> - Our system grants everyone a more equal starting position. Sure, some
> testimony is given better weight than others, but not because of a
> person's chromosomes (and certainly not codified by law).
Of course, you judge your own values better to others. Muslims would also
have great arguments to debate with you, I suppose. That's not the point.
We can't kill others. It's a human right to be alive, to have our life
preserved and protected. Killing a killer doesn't bring the victim back.
My own point of view on Death Penalty is unsettled, but the Death Penalty
and the Sharia are based on religion, right? (in the case of death Penalty,
it's more delicate, but I truly believe it is founded on religion) So if
it's based on religion, then it's as good as religion itself, in which case
I'd be the first to say that all religions are wrong.
> > I have made it very clear in the past that I am not a believer in any
> > religion. I've studied them, though, only to realize, in my own point of
> > view, that all religions are based on the same values and needs of security
> > and peace. That's why you and everyone else here who is part of any
> > religion cannot rightfully judge Islam, Christianism or any religion. All
> > believers have this feeling that they have the right faith and that others
> > are wrong. The feeling can lead to either misunderstanding the other
> > religion, either hatred and prejudices. As for me, I'll also admit that I
> > cannot rightfully judge any religion because I think they're all kid stories
> > from thousands of years ago that got transformed over time into big belief
> > systems. But I am not saying that they are wrong or right, I'm just saying
> > that I think they have the same credibility as the Greek Mythology, the
> > Toothfairy and Santa.
> >
> > That's why I cannot withstand that someone will blatantly attack Muslims by
> > calling them a danger to world peace. In my opinion, from where I stand,
> > all religions are a threat to world peace.
> >
> > I've never heard of an Atheist starting a war to wipe out other people's
> > beliefs... That's sadly what some of you are wishing the US will do with
> > Islam...
>
> Umm, what about Communism? The Russian and Chinese blends at least
> use(d) heavy handed tactics to suppress religion.
>
> Frank
First, Communism isn't half as bad as Americans would like to believe. The
people in power were, but not the system. As far as I know, Communists in
Russia were Orthodox Catholics. I don't know for China. So maybe I can
retract myself for one person or two who in fact did try to wipe out a
religion in the name of atheism, but then , the intentions are political,
not ideological. I'm sure Stalline, should he have tried to wipe out every
religions, would have done it for the good of the people, but rather to have
a thighter grip on them. If you get back to what I was saying, I think it's
clear that I meant that no Atheist has ever tried to wipe out a religion
because of there beliefs, for the good of the humanity. But whenever you
talk about religious war, it's a religion that wants to irradicate another
religion in the name of god, so it's an ideological reason, not a political
one IMHO. But then again, I could be mistaking.
Atheism doesn't have a book that says it's the only right choice and that
all other religions are wrong. The Bible and The Coran says so.
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
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| (...) You seem to be saying we can't judge other cultures. Can we judge people? Can we judge groups of people? How many people have to follow the same idea before we can't judge it? I would point out that many wrongdoers in the world believe that (...) (22 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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