Subject:
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Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sat, 19 Apr 2003 05:57:21 GMT
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Viewed:
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2252 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
>
> > Thank you. But really, I haven't a problem with Islam per se. There are many
> > peaceful Muslims. What I *do* have a problem with are extremist Muslims who
> > tend to comprise a shockingly high percentage of the Muslim population, and the
> > seemingly indifference or even support of them by general Muslim population,
>
> It might be useful to have a clear, legitimate tally of extremists relative
> to the whole sample population. We can't use the US media or Arab-state-run
> media, since both of these sources are tainted. There are over a billion
> Muslims in the world; how many of that number would qualify as a "shockingly
> high percentage" in your view?
Well, say we compared it to the percentage of extremist Christians for example.
I don't know what that number is, but judging from reported Christian
terrorist attacks I'd say that it is pretty low. Even if the percentage of
extremist Muslims is 1 in a 1,000, that still leaves 1 million radical Muslims
worldwide.
> > and the overall desire of the Muslim population for the destruction of the
> > State of Israel.
>
> I'm not qualified to get into a large Israel/Palestine debate, other than to
> say that neither side should cast the first stone.
I am, by merit of having studied the issue under both Palestinian and Israeli
professors from Beirzeit and Hebrew Universities respectively. Simplistically
put-- Israel needs to feel safe as a recognized sovereign nation, and the Arab
world isn't willing at this time to grant this. Just look at a map of the
Middle East and see this tiny nation surrounded by vast, hostile nations. It
gives one pause.
> > > If you're going to use the term "enlightenment" as litmus test to determine
> > > whether a group is worthy of respect, then you need to throw out groups that
> > > work to foster pseudoscience in education or which try do eliminate the
> > > division between church and state--both of these are contrary to
> > > post-enlightenment thinking but are rampant among some groups here in the US.
> >
> > I would say only if those beliefs led their followers to violence.
>
> But then what? Do you deride the whole of the belief system because of the
> actions of a few non-representative extremists? That appears to be what
> you're suggesting re: Islam.
The extremists are attempting (with success I might add) to radicalize the
entire religion of Islam! In non-democratic, illiterate and repressed
societies, such indoctrination is far easier than in open Western societies,
and more likely to occur.
> And even if it doesn't lead to violence--what if it leads to a generation of
> ill-informed students or a large segment of the population marginalized by a
> de facto theocracy?
Are you suggesting that every generation isn't misinformed by Science? We are
taught what is currently known, which is always changing. I just heard the
other day that 94% of the matter in the universe is *unknown*. Say again?
There is still a lot of room for earth-shattering revelations by Science in the
future, but this is rather off-topic.
> We can even overlook the current theocracy and speak instead of a hypothetical
> religious ruling body in the US. Would you support such a system even if it
> was non-violent? Even if it destroyed church/state separation?
Of course not. Please don't equate a leader being guided by his/her values
derived from religion to the installation of a theocracy. They aren't the
same. If our next president were an atheist, I wouldn't then characterize the
US as an atheistic state. The Constitution and BoR haven't changed.
JOHN
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
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| (...) It might be useful to have a clear, legitimate tally of extremists relative to the whole sample population. We can't use the US media or Arab-state-run media, since both of these sources are tainted. There are over a billion Muslims in the (...) (24 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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