Subject:
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Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sat, 19 Apr 2003 21:29:39 GMT
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Viewed:
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536 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Pedro Silva writes:
>
> > (To John: a significant number of Muslims has lived in Europe for centuries,
> > notably in the Balkans. They are not Arabs, and they have little to none
> > political expression as a lobby in Western Europe. So in fact when you're
> > referring to Muslims in WE, you are indeed confusing them with the Arab
> > immigration - and that is dangerously close to racial profiling. I will
> > however admit this to be unintentional)
> >
> > > > That as Europe becomes more and more influenced politically by Muslims, the
> > > > rift between the US and Europe will only widen. The day is coming when
> > > > modern, secular European nations are going to find themselves dominated by
> > > > indigenous Muslims who follow a religion that has yet to pass through
> > > > enlightenment.
> >
> > ("Dominated"???)
>
> To answer your question above, I was referring, as I believe the author of the
> article was as well, to Arab immigration and their direct descendants post WWII.
So doesn't that make your own distinction between "Muslim" and "Arab" a bit
shakier? You claimed to be referring to Muslims, and that Arab was a
race-related term.
> When I said "dominated", I meant in the context of numbers. The Muslim
> population continues to grow throughout Europe as the European population
> continues to slide. At some point in the not-too-distant future, the Muslim
> population will be in the majority in terms of a voting lobby.
(and exactly what do you propose to do about it???)
Don't you think it's a bit awkward to speak of "arabizing" Europe, when from
a rough total of 450 million European Citizens (1), only some 15 million are
of Arab origin? And knowing that, in the overall context, also the numbers
of Hindus or Chinese are increasing significantly? Wasn't that very same
multiculturalism/tolerance that made America so great?
Do you realize that the very same argument the author uses towards Arabs was
used two generations ago regarding Jews?
Also, are you aware of whom is using that argument *in* Europe right now?
Sure, I noticed a very strong Arab presence in France (there is no doubt
about that). I also realized that the majority of the unemployed youngsters
(or sub-employed) are of Arab origin. Would that be a possible explanation
for the degree of disenfranchising they experience in a society that still
regards them as foreigners? It's so easy to point out the Arabs as the
causers of the unrest in the french "banlieues"... but who has put them in
those ghettos in the first place? Wouldn't they be people like the man who
wrote this article?
I still remember the words of a frenchman (of Arab origin) in 1998, when
Zidane was the french national hero: "it's the first time I see the
skinheads cheer an arab..."
Pedro
(living closer to Morrocco than France!)
(1) - under the Maastricht Treaty, people from the 15 memberstates are
European Citizens; for the 450M figure I'm also including the 10 new
memberstates that signed up on April 16th.
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
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| (...) lol Absolutely nothing-- it's not really my problem! I just found the statistics interesting and am just wondering how *Europe* will react. (...) Again, I don't want to speak about *Arabs*, unless we are talking about those Arabs who are (...) (21 years ago, 20-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
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| (...) To answer your question above, I was referring, as I believe the author of the article was as well, to Arab immigration and their direct descendants post WWII. When I said "dominated", I meant in the context of numbers. The Muslim population (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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