Subject:
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Re: A little self examination?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:54:44 GMT
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Viewed:
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412 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Tim Courtney writes:
> This whole thing has gotten me thinking -- Matthew was out to prove a point,
> right? Matthew is also a jerk and has serious problems, right. But, just
> because he carried himself *very* poorly here doesn't mean he might not have
> something valuable to say to us. I'm just trying to think if there's
> anything about this community that is out of whack, like he suggested.
A little introspection can be healthy, too much self analysis can be
paalyzing and counter-productive.
I believe that any valid points he had to make were outweighed by his
aggressive, nay combative, immature, and myopic attitude. However, when put
forth as you have above, this topic is worthy of discussion or at least a
passing thought.
BUT,
Keep in mind, subsequent discussions could also polarize the audience even
more...
> I was talking to a friend yesterday about the whole deal - someone who has
> slipped away from Lugnet intentionally but unnoticed. That person feels
> that the community is elitist, and from that person's perspective I
> understand.
If you are making reference to the person I think you are, I miss his input.
(if it is this person, his webpage as what drew me into the online Lego
community)
I can see how outsiders and many community members can view ths community as
elitist. Some people's models are considered superior while other's are
ignored. One person's widget may receive a standing ovation while a less
recognizable name may be overlooked. (sometimes this may be based on model
scale/size or perceived "quality", other times it's a popularity contest ...
nothing more)
Remember the bitter article rating system and subsequent discussions? If
there was ever an example of perceived elites, it was during that time
period. Remember auction announcements by some (including one of mine) being
low-balled for a bad link or some other undisclosed reason?
In any highschool, workplace, community, or society there are outspoken
leaders, practiced politicians, stubborn bosses, wild rock stars,
"beautiful" people, popular cliques, lovable rogues, loudmouthed
philosophers, inspired artists et al. However, for each one of these, there
are many more observers, spectators, critics, independents etc. that
generally make up a silent majority. Many of these people may not care to
participate based on a variety of reasons from time constraints to
embarassment. Some may feel intimidated because their collections are
small, they don't have a website/digicam, or thay don't feel like
"competing" for attention and seeking approval.
Some people relish particpating in discussions while others prefer to
listen. Still more may feel that they have nothing to add of substance,
even when they do.
> They feel that when they post here people ignore them, that
> they're a good candidate to kill a thread, etc. I don't like it that my
> friend has had that experience here.
I am willing to believe that I am a "master thread killer"...have been since
I joined Lugnet (what, about 3 years ago?) ... has it changed much?...nope
Have I had the same experience? Yes
Is it frustrating? Yes, but Not as much as it used to be
Am I deeply disturbed by it? No
Sometimes, when you are passionate about something or think you have
something to offer, you want others to listen to you, comment, support you,
or tell you that you are mistaken. However, given the limited means of
communication here, if you type something and no one replies...how do you
know your opinion has even been heard? You don't. 100 people could have
read it...or none at all.
Many of these issues can be a complex mixture of self image,
pride,enthusiasm, or just a bad day at work.
I refuse to give up though = )
...SNIP...
>I doubt anyone currently in the community would repeat such
> actions. But something must have triggered that, whether it was Matthew's
> own personal problem, his genuine experience with the people a few years
> ago, or a combination of both.
Matthew is Matthew. I don't think his extreme case is a viable example, but
I think there may be some wisdom that can be gained from a general
discussion. Some people can say that the community, society, whatever made
him this way (an age old argument akin to genetics vs. socialization). If
this world pushed him over the edge, the real world must be a frightening place.
>I'm just asking myself out loud what might
> be our problem, if we have one. I certainly don't want to see anyone hurt
> by this group of people. Unfortunately we had a very upstanding member of
> this group leave a couple weeks ago from frustrations.
What's more devastating, the member who leaves or the one that is too
intimidated to join?
Any community or group has growing pains. As a society or majority move in
one direction or subscribe to a particular vision, others may disagree and
fade away, overrun, outvoted, or berated into submission. These individuals
may not be negative or threatening, their opinions simply don't agree w/
many others or conform to tradition. If the group actively disenfranchises
these people, they and their contribution are lost. If the group at least
listens, discusses, or recognizes the ideas before deciding to keep or
discard them the group may be healthier overall.
What if : all the Train people said "we only discuss 6 wide cars and 4 wide
town vehicles...anything else is crap"
What if: all the Castleheads decreed, " All castles must be gray and
black... we will not accept any others"
> So I open it up for thoughts on the issue, and am willing to discuss and
> examine just the same myself. Anyone?
> And someone slap me if I'm crazy. I'm writing this because I think that
> what we saw yesterday was pretty serious, and if the community has anything
> to do with it I'd like to see that change.
I think the recent events were serious in terms of cortey and respect, but I
would hesitate to blame the community fr creating that particular monster.
This was an individual that delights in exposing the flawed nature of
humanity and revels in emotional upheaval.
I think the community has some things to ponder, but not solely because of
Matthew.
>If it was all Matthew and
> whatever he was smoking, that's all fine and dandy I s'pose.
Thatis quite possible too...
> Peace all...
> --
>
> Tim Courtney - tim@zacktron.com
>
> http://www.ldraw.org - Centralized LDraw Resources
> http://www.zacktron.com - Zacktron Alliance
>
> ICQ: 23951114 - AIM: TimCourtne
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 | | A little self examination?
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| This whole thing has gotten me thinking -- Matthew was out to prove a point, right? Matthew is also a jerk and has serious problems, right. But, just because he carried himself *very* poorly here doesn't mean he might not have something valuable to (...) (24 years ago, 19-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate) !
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