 | | THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | Not because we can't win the war, but because we're already setting up to lose the peace: (URL) (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | (...) from the article: "With a long career centered mostly in the Middle East, administration officials describe (Barbara) Bodine as an Arabist who favors traditional, "stable" Arab regimes - the kind where democracy does not flourish." Note that (...) (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) If that happens, then Dubya can just have the Supreme Court overturn the Iraqi election. Dave! (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Scott Costello
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| | | | | | | | (...) Or AlGore can get that bald guy with the glasses to continue recounting hanging chads until he gets the result that he wants. Scott (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | | | | (...) And Dubya can have his brother appointed governor of Iraq, and have the Florida election commision make sure that those he doesn't want having ballots don't get them or.... We can trade zingers, Scott, but the real point is do you believe Bush (...) (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes: <snip> (...) Why should he stop his lieing now? Dubya's lied to us so much since the word 'Go' that even if it was noon in Arizona and he told me that the sun was up, I'd look out a window to (...) (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Scott Costello
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Perhaps I am a bit gullible but I tend to believe that our leaders are not lying. I even believed Clinton, who I felt was a pathological liar, when he said that bombing Iraq was in the interest of national security. I have always believed the (...) (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) I think Bush tells himself what he wants to hear and then convinces himself that it is true. "To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou cannot be false to any man." Perhaps you are reacting to his own deception (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I was trying to sort through your "newspeak" yesterday, citizen, but I couldn't really connect the dots. Why don't you try to explain your position on this "holy" war to the individual pictured here: (URL) hope your god has comforts and (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) You're absolutely right, Scott--we should work to keep them oppressed so that they don't have the chance to oppress anyone else. Shame on you for your xenophobic, inflammatory, and fear-mongering assertion. (...) Of course he will, if there's (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Yep. Kos is a useful idiot all right... Where's the pictures of the tens of thousands of civilians Saddam gassed AFTER 1991? Where are the pictures of the hundreds of thousands of civilians who starved to death (must be true, Scott A. said it (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Your last two posts are basically trolls, Lar. Personally, I have found your position pretty wishy-washy so far. Against the war, but if we're in it, then let's do this or that thing. Etc, Etc, Etc. One band-aid solution after another. I think (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | | | | Check this out: "This war was not worth a child's finger" (URL) think what I like about the article is the documenting of the arguments and techniques to justify the war. As many breathe a sigh of relief they instantly forget the slippery slope we (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | | I presume you are in the U.S. for the purposes of the next comment, but even if you are not -- the point is a sound one. I didn't vote for Gore myself, but I ask you: do you really want to live in a country where the elections are being fixed? It's (...) (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | | | | (...) How do you think LBJ got to be governor? Ahhhhhh, Texas politicians, ya gotta love em! ;-) -->Bruce<-- (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Scott Costello
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| | | | | | | | (...) I would agree that our election process is far from perfect. I wish they would require a photo ID at poling places, or have some other way for voters to prove who they are. Here in Southern California there is always a secret group that buses (...) (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Pedro Silva
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| | | | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Costello writes: (snip) (...) What's wrong with that (11mln counted overnight)? half that number is counted in my country by hand on election night, and we have half the population (and presumably, half the number (...) (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. —Pedro Silva
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| | | | | | (...) Very good point. That happened in Algeria in '92, when free elections were handled and the fundamentalists won... without cheat! Pedro (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Eric Sophie
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| | | | SO WHAT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO - (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Frank Filz
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| | | | | (...) Hmm, the war isn't a waste of time, so we should just go on about our business and not talk about it and build some LEGO instead? Personally, while I think some of the opinions are wrong here, I think it's good to talk about what's going on. (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Terry Prosper
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| | | | | | (...) Frank, do you really think the people who are expressing stupid opinions such as : "USA is supported by God" or "SH is the Devil and we HAD to get rid of him, there was NO other solution!!!" will listen to any good argument? They are blind to (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | Terry is 100% right. One thing though: the details of the anti-war side are hard to discuss because every point is at least a sub-argument. Nothing is a given because some things remain speculative because the only available knowledge is outside (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Terry Prosper
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| | | | | | | | (...) I would also add that even the people that make these laws and acts don't truly understand the meaning of them. When the founding fathers of the USA wrote the constitution, they understood far more than the present govt what "rights" mean. The (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | (...) You're on the right track, but (if you'll forgive me) I think your assessment misses the real problem. Bush and Ashcroft and Cheney and the rest (and Clinton et al, to be fair) know EXACTLY what rights are, and that's why they're working so (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | | | | (...) There are only two *effective* parties, unless one wants to count the indirect effect of altering the national debate (Greens and Libertarians). But yes, the Republicrats have put up barriers to organizing new parties. It's bad because it (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Scott Costello
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| | | | | | | | | I agree with some parts of your argument, but I find much of your argument to be egotistic and bordering on offensive. Humanity is born into freedom, if you are a religious person it is a gift from God, if not it is a natural endowment. Governments (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) We are perfectly free to kill each other, government took away that right (okay, hoarded it for itself, if you wanna be picky). We are perfectly free to take that other person's stuff, and government took away that right (same caveat). In a (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Scott Costello
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Great job Bruce, you were able to nail down two of my biggest problems with the Republican party, the reason I am an independant instead. You also summed them up very nicely. I agree the government should not reserve the right to kill it's (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Terry Prosper
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Where did I say I'm talking ONLY about USA when I say 95% of all people are dumb? I meant the whole planet! My Country, Québec, included! I'm not Anti-American. I'm anti-republican, yes, but that's got nothing to do with it. Now, you mentioned (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | QB and CA, was Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEG —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Terry Prosper writes: <snip> (...) <snip> (...) Hey Terry, I don't want to make this sound like QB bashing, but "My Country, Quebec'? Terry, what gives? It's like saying, "My Country, Ontario" or "My Country, Hamilton". (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: QB and CA, was Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEG —Terry Prosper
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Because Québec never signed canada's constitution. Because we don't speak the same language. Because Québécois and canadians have nothing in common. I'm not Canadian, even if my passport says so. And pretty soon, less than 20 years from now, (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: QB and CA, was Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEG —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) This kinda relates to what Dave and I were discussing a while ago. He was saying that unlike those awful Americans that resorted to violence, Canada achieved its indpendence without firing a shot and had rebuffed joining the Ameican revolution (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: QB and CA, was Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME L —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) All the more reason that you should take the French off your website! 8^) (...) Just pray that you don't strike oil within your Quebecois borders... Anyway, it'll be cool for the US to pick up a few maritime provinces. We'll have to redesign (...) (21 years ago, 12-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: QB and CA, was Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEG —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Didn't sign the constitution? That's your beef? Come up with something relevant to todays generation--that was in 1982 and it was bringing back the constitution from Britain. The constitution was signed by all far before either you and I were (...) (21 years ago, 14-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: QB and CA, was Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEG —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | | (URL) not that I dislike folks affiliated with the 'Separatist' movement, it's just that I don't know what "they" want. It is my sincere belief that we're all Canadian, and that regional differences are wonderful, but that these differences (...) (21 years ago, 15-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: QB and CA, was Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEG —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | | | | I don't have any particular opinion or specific knowledge of the whole Canada v Quebec thing, but I will say this -- small can be very, very good. Small means independent and self-ruling. Small means freedom and responsibility. Here in the U.S. I (...) (21 years ago, 15-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: QB and CA, was Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEG —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | | | | Ouch! "Quebec separatists defeated" (URL) much for my opinions... -- Hop-Frog (21 years ago, 15-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: QB and CA, was Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEG —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) But then again, things just get repeated... (3 posts previous... ;) ) Dave K (21 years ago, 15-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Matt Hein
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| | | | | | | | (...) Okay, I'm not exactly sure what angle you're coming from, but I'm just hoping you're not acting on the implication that 'most people'- I'm assuming you mean american - spend their time watching TV or preoccupation with a job. I can't (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Terry Prosper
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| | | | | | | | (...) I'm sorry you feel insulted for so little, especially since you said yourself you "assumed" I was talking about Americans, while I was talking about anyone in N. America or Europe. Now, I didn't include you in the 95%, so I don't see why you (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | (...) I'll grant that the average person on the street isn't applying critical thinking, and probably even many of us "smart" folks take the easy way out frequently, but someone has to keep their mind open. Personally, I don't think it actually (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Terry Prosper
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| | | | | | | | (...) But it doesn't make it better, because you could be wrong and all those sheeps would follow the wrong leader, just as it's the case with Bush and his followers. Your argument is biased by the fact you think (or give the impression that you (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | | (...) I may be missing something, but the way I'm reading it, you're saying that we might as well not critically think about things because sometimes the masses will choose the wrong action, thus, since it's a total crap shoot as to whether a good (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Terry Prosper
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| | | | | | | | (...) Not what I meant at all. All I meant was that having these discussions will have very little impact since people are dumb and will often follow the best leader (which I didn't mention). Now, the smart people are not necessarily going to change (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | | (...) If it's truly futile to have these discussions, then aren't we being dumb by having them? That's what I'm reading from your position, that these discussions are futile because not enough of us are involved. Frank (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) I don't see any of those people here. However I DO see people here who think the US can do no *right*. (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Terry Prosper
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| | | | | | (...) You don't? Have you read this forum lately? Really, I mean, John something is absolutely positive about this kind of stuff and many support him. I really shouldn't even answer to this low-blow, because it's absolutely intrue, but I do not (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Ross Crawford
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| | | | (...) Here's an idea - why doesn't everyone donate a few bricks, and we collect it all into one big crate, and ship it off to the Iraqi kids? Sure water's probably more important to them right now, but hey they need toys to play with too. ROSCO (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!! —Pedro Silva
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| | | | (...) Good idea. I'm in, if you're for real. Pedro (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: LEGO for Iraq? —Ross Crawford
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| | | | (...) Well - I was serious, but I have a feeling something like this might be a logistical nightmare. Does anyone have any experience organising anything like this? I seem to recall a similar suggestion was put forward for African kids a while back, (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: LEGO for Iraq? —Terry Prosper
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| | | | (...) I could do it for you, I really think this is a great idea. I could organize this, but I'd need a little help from some people to get seriously started. Who's in? Terry www.rotule.qc.ca (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: LEGO for Iraq? —Frank Filz
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| | | | (...) Something to consider is the cost of shipping. Several years ago (work, that was 4 years ago...) we looked into shipping LEGO to Turkey after one of the earthquakes. We ended up discovering all sorts of problems. See this post from Selcuk (and (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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