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Subject: 
Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!!
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date: 
Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:40:55 GMT
Viewed: 
455 times
  
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
I don't think most people even understand what is taking place in this
country very well; and they understand far less about the social, economic,
and political scene of some geographic location half a world away.  How many
U.S. citizens, at this very moment, understand that their rights are being
seriously abrogated by a govt. eager to database information on its citizens
and remove the expiry from the Patriot Act?

Answer: As Terry indicates -- very few.
-- Hop-Frog

I would also add that even the people that make these laws and acts don't
truly understand the meaning of them.  When the founding fathers of the USA
wrote the constitution, they understood far more than the present govt what
"rights" mean.  The right to freedom, the right to egality...  And freedom?
Bush is not even close to understand the basic meaning or that word.  He
thinks freedom is being able to do what you want, but the true meaning is
far more complex and it does involve some restrictions.

The very system of USA politics makes it impossible for many citizens to
enter the politic arena.  There are only 2 parties and these parties are
making it impossible to anyone to create a third major party.  This is not
freedom, this is not democraty.  So I can't help but be sad when I hear
people say that Iraqis were not free, that SH was a Tyran.  Bush is also a
tyran and us citizens don't have a real democratic system to elect their govt.

But who cares?  Most people are only preoccupied by their job, their fav.
sport team or the soap opera shows on TV.  Others, who tell themselves they
are more sophisticated, care about Classic music and litterature.  But in
the end, it's all the same.  The govt is an oligarchy, almost inaccessible
to your average joe.

I'll stop believing it when I'll see a black person as President, or even as
candidate for the Democrats (Republicans would rather die than have a black
person as their candidate).  Or a woman.  Or a divorced man with a son that
lives with the mother.  Or better yet, someone who openly say that [he
believes that] God doesn't exist.  Or a gay man.  Anything.  But as far as I
can remember, all candidates were rich married caucasian man believing in
God.  Now that's a democraty!

Terry
www.rotule.qc.ca



Message has 4 Replies:
  Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!!
 
(...) You're on the right track, but (if you'll forgive me) I think your assessment misses the real problem. Bush and Ashcroft and Cheney and the rest (and Clinton et al, to be fair) know EXACTLY what rights are, and that's why they're working so (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
  Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!!
 
(...) There are only two *effective* parties, unless one wants to count the indirect effect of altering the national debate (Greens and Libertarians). But yes, the Republicrats have put up barriers to organizing new parties. It's bad because it (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
  Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!!
 
I agree with some parts of your argument, but I find much of your argument to be egotistic and bordering on offensive. Humanity is born into freedom, if you are a religious person it is a gift from God, if not it is a natural endowment. Governments (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
  Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!!
 
(...) Okay, I'm not exactly sure what angle you're coming from, but I'm just hoping you're not acting on the implication that 'most people'- I'm assuming you mean american - spend their time watching TV or preoccupation with a job. I can't (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Message is in Reply To:
  Re: THIS is why this whole war is a waste of time. - NO ITS NOT - GO BUILD SOME LEGO!!
 
Terry is 100% right. One thing though: the details of the anti-war side are hard to discuss because every point is at least a sub-argument. Nothing is a given because some things remain speculative because the only available knowledge is outside (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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