Subject:
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Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.general
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Date:
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Fri, 7 Dec 2001 02:35:26 GMT
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Viewed:
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798 times
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> In lugnet.general, David Eaton writes:
> > In lugnet.general, Allan Bedford writes:
> > > Lots of kids complain I bet. They hate that it takes so long to build, that
> > > it's difficult to do (you've got to pay attention to the pictures and find
> > > the right bricks!), etc.
> >
> > Whoa whoa.... back the truck up.
> >
> > Who are these attention deficit disorder delinquents?
>
> My younger brother, for one. He complained that they took too long to build.
> And upon several occasions where I've seen kids playing with Lego (my
> cousins of varied ages, other family's kids, etc) I've seen kids get
> frustrated and find the need to ask for help. Becuase they can't find the
> piece they need. Because it doesn't look like the one on the box. Because
> they can't get the pieces to fit right. Etc. Sad but true.
I guess I must have been a weird kid. All of these problems are exactly why
I enjoyed LEGO so much.
> And what's sadder? People don't speak up when everything's AOK. Parents who
> bought Lego and had their kids build the models successfully don't call to
> complain. Nor do they call to congratulate. The most they do is buy another
> set. (Ok, OCCASIONALLY they call to congratulate-- but it's rare). But the
> parents whose kids are having problems with it? They call right in and give
> the company a piece of their mind. Even if they're in the minority of Lego
> buyers, they're the most frequent vocalists.
Which is why I have been attempting to make such a ruckus. I'm an adult
who's having problems with this company and I want them to know it. I
present them with opinions and information. If they decide to ignore me, at
least I can say I tried. I would hate to be someone who never spoke up when
things were in flux and then was disappointed in the end because they felt
their voice was never heard.
> But honestly? I don't think that's the problem. I think the problem is that
> many of these kids find building boring. Following 38 steps in an
> instruction booklet to get a toy isn't as much fun as, say, the resolve
> necessary to play a video game. Video games are much more entertaining to
> them WHILE working towards the eventual goal. Lego building is seen more as
> tedium. I think.
Again, I must have been a weird kid then. I loved following the
instructions. Then tearing the buildings etc. apart and making my own designs.
> > This idea that video games and television and computers has ruined kids
> > attention span is such utter nonsense. I grew up on all those things (mind
> > you the first home video games, non-cable TV and Commodore PET computers)
> > and I still found time, attention and desire to build the first Expert
> > Builder Auto Chassis (http://guide.lugnet.com/set/853 ) when it came out. I
> > was 9 years old. I'll bet any 9 year-old kid today could build that same
> > set faster than I did then, and certainly faster than I can today.
>
> It's not that they can't. Far from it. It's that it's seen as boring. TV,
> video games, movies, commercials, toys, computers, and even news media are
> all focusing more on hype these days. Flashing colors and big action and sex
> and violence are all really entertaining. And there's more of it.
> Commercialism in this country (and spreading) has figured out that grabbing
> someone's attention is the most important part. By constant exposure to
> instant gratification of being entertained, one quickly looses patience for
> things that aren't so instantly gratifying.
I really have no argument to counter these suggestions. You are probably
right. I guess I'm a silly old fool who thinks that the LEGO company cares
about their products, their customers and themselves.
> > > Result? They complain. And they don't play with the sets. Parents complain.
> > > Lego hears the complaints. They dumb down the sets. The kids complain less.
> > > And we complain more. Who's the larger market base? Kids by far. They win.
> >
> > Who's buying them the sets? The parents. Please the parents.... please the
> > company's bank account. Result? The kids get more sophisticated sets,
> > adult fans get something they actually *want* to buy, and the company
> > doesn't go broke. Everybody wins.
>
> Agree-- but the trick is to convince the parents that sophisticated sets
> will help their kids get smarter and more patient, rather than advertise as
> something to keep your kids from complaining. And it's really too bad
> parents don't often work that way. Some do. And I applaud them. Many don't.
If LEGO would take ownership of the Dacta line and actively promote the
educational benefits of their core products this feat would almost
accomplish itself. Instead they relegate sales of some of their most
rewarding sets to a third party company who doesn't do didly squat to
promote the sets beyond the world of teachers.
> > > BUT. The interesting thing is that there ARE kids who want it as a building
> > > toy. And the ones that have the resolve and patience to build a
> > > non-juniorized set get less attached to Lego since it's not as much fun. It
> > > means less long term "hard-core" fans.
> >
> > Exactly!!!! A point I've been trying to make for weeks now. This is the
> > real problem. And it's not one that we'll see today, it's a long way down
> > the road... if the company's even still in business then.
>
> And we've been trying to make for 4 years :)
Then clearly it's a hopeless cause. Things have not changed enough, or fast
enough, in the last 4 years to show that the company is really serious about
these endeavors.
> Part of the good thing about tedium is that the goal becomes better. The
> more you work at something, the more valuable the result. If the kids have
> to work hard to build a Lego set, great! They'll be really proud when they
> finish. And they'll be eager to build again to get the same feeling they had
> at the end. The problem is that too many give up halfway through while being
> distracted by something more interesting.
Help me here. Why do they give up? Is it just that some kids are not
capable of accomplishing the tasks? Or are the tasks really too hard?
> Which makes you question who the target audience should be. The GENERAL
> population of kids? Or the future AFOLs?
You can't target future adult fans exclusively. Target ALL kids properly
and the adult fans will naturally develop. Mind you... you need to hook
them with amazing stuff.
> > > Also. Will Lego's sales REALLY be hurt if they take juniorization away? I
> > > dunno. How much will sales drop? I dunno. How much would they pick up? No
> > > clue. It's really too bad that there isn't good market data available. Plus
> > > there's so many other factors that it's tough to judge... What's best for
> > > Lego? Nobody knows. We just know what we want.
> >
> > To bad the company isn't even willing to *try*.
>
> They are trying. At least starting to. They realize that *something* was
> wrong. In 1998 (1 year after juniorization started) they lost money for the
> 1st year ever in the company's history. Juniorization's fault? Maybe. But so
> many other things were going on it's hard to tell. But they knew SOMETHING
> was wrong.
Then why haven't they seriously addressed this? Why does the catalog look
like a scrapbook that fell into a blender? It represents the mess that's
going on internally right now.
> And they're bringing back sets. Pirate sets, the Guarded Inn, the
> Metroliner-- All non-juniorized sets making a comeback.
Great for train fans. Great for castle fans. Not much yet for the general
fan like myself.
> And the best part?
> As Brad mentioned to the congregation at BrickFest '01, it wasn't even AFOLs
> who were the big buyers of the Guarded Inn. It was kids.
Guess you had to be part of the group who were there to be privy to such
information. For the rest of us, just trying to enjoy this hobby as we did
when we were kids, it would be nice to see more of this sort of information
shared with the general public. Here's an idea... why not on LEGO.com?
They already have their own site, but instead prefer to make important
announcements on LUGNET. I can't figure that one out at all.
What the company needs to realize is that not all adults consider themselves
AFOL's. I myself am NOT an AFOL. I am a kid fan of LEGO
who just happens to be trapped in an adult body. I am not part of the AFOL
community. I do not attend Brickfest-type events. I do not engage in
selling parts or models for profit. I just like LEGO bricks... period. It
would be nice if the company realized that the typical LUGNET participant is
not the sole representation of their adult market.
> It was parents. A
> light at the end of the tunnel perhaps? Maybe there are still enough parents
> and kids who want less juniorized sets? And maybe TLC will change its
> thinking? We can only hope.
I'm hoping. I really am. :)
Regards,
Allan B.
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization?
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| (...) My younger brother, for one. He complained that they took too long to build. And upon several occasions where I've seen kids playing with Lego (my cousins of varied ages, other family's kids, etc) I've seen kids get frustrated and find the (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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