 | | Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Jonathan Wilson
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| | | Lego keeps saying that junorization is what todays video-game kids want but is it really true? What we need is an experiment, to prove once and for all if junorization is what the market wants. Take 2 sets, one jr and one representing the best lego (...) (23 years ago, 4-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Reinhard "Ben" Beneke
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| | | | | (...) Even if I do not like the answer, I think it is: "Yes, market demands junorized sets" Leg Godt! Ben (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Jonathan Wilson
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| | | | | | | (...) look at it this way: Given the choice between a juniorized set and a non juniorized set that are otherwise both very similar (like the 2 police stations in my example) which set would most lego consumers choose? The most important question is: (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Wessel Burgers
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| | | | | | | (...) Today is 'Sint Nicolaas'-day in Holland (and in some parts of Germany?). Traditionally Sint Nic gives the Dutch kids a lot of toys on this day, which are deposited through the chimney in a big brown bag by 'Zwarte Piet' (comparable to the elfs (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Reinhard "Ben" Beneke
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| | | | | | | | (...) The 6th of December is "Nikolaus-Tag", but that means just a few sweets for the kids (put in a boot which has to be places at a window or door), but not tons of toys. The main day for gifts is the evening of 24th. (...) No idea, how the (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Allan Bedford
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| | | | | | (...) Which market exactly would that be? Let's take a look at things *for kids* the way they are now, compared to the way they were when I was growing up as a pre-teen in the late 70's. Movies today are MORE sophisticated. Books today are MORE (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Richie Dulin
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| | | | | | | (...) No way! Even if you ignore Mindstorms and Technic, there is a wider range of parts available in a wider range of colours across a wider range of sets in a wider range of themes. (...) Maybe kids today are smarter? Maybe you're not making a (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Allan Bedford
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| | | | | | | | (...) But ignoring Mindstorms and Technic (what little exists) the sets are less *sophisticated* from a design point of view. You may be right, the colors, pieces and themes may be wide ranging, but the technical make-up of the sets has dropped (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Richie Dulin
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| | | | | | | | (...) One has 280 pieces, one has 137 pieces. Hardly a fair comparison. And "suffer with"? I have a mental image of a child screaming "No, no, please don't make me play with it!" (...) Producing a larger building, with more play possibilities (you (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Allan Bedford
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| | | | | | | | (...) You reinforced my point. One has lots of basic bricks with which to build *other* things after you've built the main model. With the Jack Stone pieces you can build.... um... I'm not sure what else you can build. The fact that today's sets (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Ognian Chernokojev
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| | | | | | | "Allan Bedford" <apotomeREMOVE-THIS@...vista.net> wrote in message news:GnwH2y.HHF@lugnet.com... (...) Which movies? It seems to me that today movies have more special effects but that is not sophistication. (...) Let's take a look at the adventure (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Leonard Hoffman
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| | | | | | (...) how so? should i remind you of the "Mummy Returns?" yeah you see stuff Fight Club and the Truman Show everynow and then, but mindless bs still dominates the screens. (...) umm.. which books? as far as ive noticed, and i think scholarship will (...) (23 years ago, 10-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —John Neal
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| | | | | (...) But you just said yourself why juniorization is here-- because of video game kids with short attention spans. So your little experiment should be *against* a video game (use any LEGO set you want. The idea is to get the kid *playing* with the (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Stuart Immonen
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| | | | | | | (...) <snip> (...) I agree with this entirely, and my own son, who shares with me tens of thousands of regular (ie stackable, if not rectilinear) bricks, _loves_ Bionicles, and has asked for nothing else (lego-wise) for Christmas. He has a separate (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Allan Bedford
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| | | | | | | | (...) The success of Bionicle is not the success of LEGO. It is the success of a line that is closer to action figures than building bricks. It's a sad day, not one to celebrate. (...) Do I read you correctly? You're saying he's asked for nothing (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Pardon me, but TLC offers something *better* than buckets-- bulk packs! I know folk like to rail on about the slowness of this service being expanded, but step back a moment. Three years ago we all would have killed for the possibility of such (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Allan Bedford
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) I was speaking for the kid in me who still likes going into a store and buying a new bucket of LEGO bricks. He's very sad these days. The bulk packs (and all the other LEGO Direct stuff) may be great for some, but for me it's done nothing. (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? (or were they such good ol' days?) —Kerry Raymond
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Absolutely. I was into Lego as a kid in the 1960s. One of my last sets before the commencement of my Dark Age was: (URL) I thought this was a pretty neat set at the time. I must have built that set again and again and again, because I liked it (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Stuart Immonen
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| | | | | | | | (...) hmm. I don't think anyone is actually celebrating this, although ther does seem to be a faction that supports savvy market decisions as long as there is a percieved benefit to them personally. ie: bulk packs, advanced model sets alongside (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | (...) This is really apples and oranges, and isn't worth pursuing. This is like saying that because I want pornography TLC should test market their bricks next to a tv with a porn DVD playing on it (late 80s Christy Canyon, please). Same with the (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Pedro Silva
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| | | | | | | | | In lugnet.general, Richard Marchetti writes: (snipped) (...) Richard, I disagree with you on this. The Legoland parks are something worthwhile, which I knew virtually nothing only five years ago. I happened to visit Windsor's in '97, and let me tell (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Not likely. I have the Ult Lego Book and all the fantastic models it contains infuriate me because I can't even begin to amass or in ANY way acquire some of the elements available to the Legoland Master Builders in the making of those models. (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Mike Walsh
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| | | | | | | | | "richard marchetti" <blueofnoon@aol.com> wrote in message news:Gnw4u0.6Hv@lugnet.com... (...) [ ... snipped ... ] (...) [ ... snipped ... ] If you look closely at your latest S@H catalog you will notice that the Pirate sets are labeled "Hard To (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Allan Bedford
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| | | | | | | | | (...) How sad that it takes them 3 tries to get juniorization right. Maybe if they went back to making the sets they make best... the ones with square and rectangular bricks in them... they'd have more success out of the gate. (...) Please give them (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Kerry Raymond
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| | | | | | | | (...) nor (...) Well, I admit to having 4 Lego watches and I think they are great and am almost always wearing one. I love mixing and matching the coloured links, faces, and so on. I have a couple of minifig keyrings too. Now, I freely admit that I (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —John P. Henderson
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Coffee mugs ? -H. (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Not only that, but personalized with your name on it! -John (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | RE: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Bram Lambrecht
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Yah, if your name is John...(or any other "normal" American name) Kind of hard to find one that says "Bram" on it... --Bram Bram Lambrecht bram@cwru.edu www.bldesign.org (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —John P. Henderson
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Well, my real name is John, even if I rarely go by it. But what the heck are we talking about? I haven't seen any mugs. Not that I buy a lot of the non-Lego items, but as was said an occasional one makes a nice conversation piece. -Hendo (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Maggie Cambron
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) They have these personalized mugs you can buy at Legoland and also at LIC from the sound of it. My mug, from LL Carlsbad, depicts minfigs in construction gear moving bricks around. It says Legoland California and has my name in block (no pun!) (...) (23 years ago, 7-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —James Brown
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) My "James" mug is my mug at work, used for coffee and conversation-starting. LLC didn't have a "Lara" or a "Raven" that I could get my wife, though. :/ thanks, James (23 years ago, 7-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Mike Walsh
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| | | | | | | | | | | | "Maggie Cambron" <mcambron@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:Gny72w.4I6@lugnet.com... (...) [ ... snipped ... ] (...) from (...) gear (...) (no (...) the (...) Margaret. (...) I too was surprised that "Travis" was unavailable but it wasn't a one (...) (23 years ago, 7-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Mike Walsh
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| | | | | | | | | | "Bram Lambrecht" <bram@cwru.edu> wrote in message news:000501c17e7d$e4...1681@bl... (...) The Orlando-LIC used to personalize mugs with whatever name you want on it. It took 24 hours (order it and pay for it and pick it up 24 hours later or have it (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Mike Walsh
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| | | | | | | | "Kerry Raymond" <kerry@dstc.edu.au> wrote in message news:GnxBDw.7yt@lugnet.com... (...) [ ... snipped ... ] (...) my (...) and (...) [ .. snipped ... ] This isn't completely true - the GMLTC has a clock tower that uses LEGO watches. (URL) Walsh - (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Allan Bedford
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| | | | | | (...) Are today's Adult fans to be the last generation of LEGO fans? At the rate the company is going, they are doing a fine job of creating new Star Wars fans, Harry Potter fans and Bionicle fans. But currently, they are not producing any new (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general) !
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| | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Richie Dulin
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| | | | | | (...) Are today's adult fans the *first* generation of LEGO fans? ...and shouldn't we expect some evolution between the first and subsequent generations? Cheers Richie Dulin (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Allan Bedford
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| | | | | | (...) Yes, evolution is good. What we are faced with is extinction. How many Meccano fans do you know who are in their early 20's? The reason for this is that the company failed to market effectively to both their adult fans while at the same time (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —John P. Henderson
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| | | | | (...) <snip> After reading many of the replies to the thread I influenced... (URL) have been reaching the conclusion that perhaps junior-themes do indeed have a place in TLC's plans. As I have voiced, my concern is that they promote such themes to (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —David Eaton
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| | | | | (...) I think there's a couple problems. Lego is marketing itself as a specific kit. What can you build with the Hogwart's Castle set? Hogwart's Castle of course! It uses *all* the pieces nicely with none leftover, and doesn't provide (any?) (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —William R. Ward
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| | | | | | | (...) That's nothing new. When I was a kid (around 5, I think), my parents invited another kid around my age to come play with me. My mom tells me that I invited the kid to play Legos. His response: "*PLAY* Legos??" It had never occurred to him to (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Kevin Wilson
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| | | | | | | | William R Ward wrote in message ... (...) Yes indeed... the rot had started to set in even then. <curmudgeon voice> When I was a lad, we didn't have any instructions. All we had was bricks - and lucky to get 'em! </cv> Seriously though, *any* (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —John Neal
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| | | | | | | (...) This is what I keep telling myself-- they *must* know what they are doing. They *must* be reacting to some sort of data, because it would seem to me that, on the surface, juniorization would seem to be an expensive move unilaterally (why (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Allan Bedford
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| | | | | | (...) Exactly. The worst part is that LEGO used to be the industry leader. Their name was virtually synonymous with *building* toys. (...) Which they wouldn't do if the sets actually contained some basic bricks that they could use to model something (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —David Eaton
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| | | | | | (...) My younger brother, for one. He complained that they took too long to build. And upon several occasions where I've seen kids playing with Lego (my cousins of varied ages, other family's kids, etc) I've seen kids get frustrated and find the (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Question: Does the market realy want junorization? —Allan Bedford
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| | | | | | (...) I guess I must have been a weird kid. All of these problems are exactly why I enjoyed LEGO so much. (...) Which is why I have been attempting to make such a ruckus. I'm an adult who's having problems with this company and I want them to know (...) (23 years ago, 7-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: Markets and juniorization —Bradley Dale
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| | | | (...) My big question: Why does LEGO need today's kids? What if LEGO focused on being such a good toy for ages 12+ that every teen and adult wanted to build with it? Not just adults that are currently AFOLS, but everyone! I think that would be (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Markets and juniorization —David Eaton
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| | | | | (...) Well-- it's not just about money for the Lego Company. It's about their values. I mean, if they found some new super-product that made them more money, would they drop the Lego product and make the new one? Nah. It's just not their particular (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Markets and juniorization —Allan Bedford
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| | | | | | (...) Um, yes they would. They already have. It's called Bionicle. It is so far from their core product that it's not even readily compatible. (Unless you are an adult fan of course who has some obscure Technic pieces that allow integration.) They (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Markets and juniorization —John P. Henderson
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| | | | | | | (...) Exactly! Think about it. If they did a study on the effects of their toys on my generation, they would soon discover that almost everyone (well, perhaps more male than female) who grew up in the late 1970s and 1980s still think of Lego as (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Markets and juniorization —David Eaton
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| | | | | | (...) No no-- I mean totally different. Things without kids as the focus. Think fax machines. Cars. Real estate. If they found a great new way to make a solar powered car that would revoloutionize the world, would they drop the contruction toy line (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Markets and juniorization —Allan Bedford
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| | | | | | (...) Not that they would spend much R&D money on such products, but I see your point now. (...) I guess I try to look at it with both my kid brain and my adult brain. Neither one likes it at all. :) (...) We're not their target market for only one (...) (23 years ago, 7-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Markets and juniorization —John P. Henderson
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| | | | | | In lugnet.general, Allan Bedford writes: <snip-a-dee-do-da> (...) Now *that* would be awesome! That is one of the coolest ideas I have heard in a while. Maybe throw in a few images of building ideas (for those inexperienced with the given theme), (...) (23 years ago, 7-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Markets and juniorization —Pedro Silva
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| | | | | (...) Better still, why won't LEGO design toys that will *force* kids to use their brains? I am getting sick and tired of having kids so "TV-dependant" that they cannot articulate words properly any longer. (...) Do WE? It is a sociological issue: (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Markets and juniorization —John P. Henderson
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| | | | | | (...) Reminds me of the Roger Water's song "Amused to Death"... (FUT: off-topic.fun) -H. (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Markets and juniorization —John Neal
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| | | | (...) Not for a nanosecond. Because there are literary 1,000,000s of them (little people) and only 1,000s of us (AFOLs). You do the math. (...) TLC is a business. They just want a *market*. They aren't juniorizing just to be daft-- it is what the (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Markets and juniorization —Bradley Dale
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| | | | (...) that (...) But what if tens of millions of big people wanted to build with LEGO, because TLC was focused on selling it to adults instead of kids? (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Markets and juniorization —John Neal
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| | | | | (...) You are kidding, right? Maybe in some AFOL fantasy dreamworld place, but not here in good ol' reality. -John (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Markets and juniorization —Frank Filz
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| | | | (...) If you look at all modeling hobbies in total, which is probably a good approximation of the best total market for any one modeling hobby, I think you would find that that total is smaller than TLC's market. Frank (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Markets and juniorization —Erik Olson
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| | | | Yeah, but what if a certain Brick company had sets that made adults think "Wow, if I were a kid, I'd want that." They would be so cool, thousands of adults would start collecting them. When Playboy reviews the Sopwith Camel next to the flat-screen (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Markets and juniorization —John P. Henderson
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| | | | (...) Again, this line of thinking is very much a dream (See my post elsewhere in this thread). However, I might point out that the Lego setups were a HUGE draw at events like the Greenburg Train show where NELUG setup a table or two amongst (...) (23 years ago, 6-Dec-01, to lugnet.general)
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