Subject:
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Re: Questions about fan involvement with TLC
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.general
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Date:
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Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:53:41 GMT
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In lugnet.general, C. L. GunningCook wrote:
Let me start with the disclaimer that I am on the NXT MDP, though I'm probably the least active member due to personal commitments right now. I barely know how to spell NXT.
> Q1. Are the NDA keeping our most prolific quiet? (Aside from the obvious, I
> understand they can't discuss certain things, but are there people that would
> have been posting otherwise that are now remaining silent, in fear that even
> guessing or hypothesising might end up being factual, and then be some violation
> of their agreement?)
> Q2. Is this hindering or benefiting our communication as a community?
No, I don't think so. Most of the NDA are future product based, eg, NXT,
Batman, etc. If you think that a major part of community relations and
communications is speculation on new products, then I guess, yes, it probably
does. That said, hundreds of people continued to post along about the future of
Mindstorms while a few were part of the MUP group.
I personally don't think speculation on new products is that big a part of the
community. Certainly it is fun to guess what the new Harry Potter line will
look like, but there's plenty of that going on regardless of NDAs. But new
ideas, MOCs, and events are not under NDA and continue to flourish, if not here,
elsewhere. That's what I call community activities, and that's nothing to do
with future products.
Example: There are a few rtlToronto people with NXTs. (Not enough, but a few)
That doesn't stop an event like rtl20, or planning for rtl21, or any of the
usual banter on the NG about whatever issue of the week. Events and chat are
what I call community. Speculation on what NXT's capability is or what colour
the battery plugs are on it are not.
> Q3. a) Is the help/advice/feedback those under an NDA are providing to Lego
> really being taken in account, or it just be considerd dandling carrot by the
> company? (2)
> b) If so (based on Q3a), is this a reasonable price to pay to have so many
> of our high profile members unable to discuss things openly?
That's a really thorny question. I think overall, we're seeing formally traditional marketing oriented companies learn how to "use" enthusiasts and "social networking" to build grassroots campaigns. Companies are learning or have learned to coopt fan buzz.
Is it an insidious plague ruining the viability of the community? I don't know
about that. I know that many positive and productive things are happening with
Mindstorms because of users being asked to be part of the MDP. And I think the
set of people chosen (Hassenplug, Barnes, Hempel et al) were the the right
people to contribute. I'm glad they were the ones, though of course, everyone
would have liked to have the golden ticket in his chocolate wrapper, including
myself.
I believe Jake McKee's idea of AFOL involvement as a two way street or
partnership was a good perspective. It certainly is the right attitude. I hope
that the Lego relationship is:
a) You give us help in testing/promoting/whatevering a new product
eg Mindstorms NXT
b) We give you an opportunity to help contribute
eg Factory beta testers making comments
c) We give you an opportunity to be part of something you can't be a part of on
your own.
eg Millyard Project etc.
Now is that feedback actually being listened to? I think there's a tendancy for
enthusiasts of any kind to look at a large organization like a buddy or another
person. If I want to go for Italian versus sushi next Sunday, I can easily ask
my friend if he'd switch our plans around. That's easy. Or in my own group, if
no one can make it for Friday dinner, we can move it to Thursday, that's cool.
But changing a huge organization around with business priorities is another
story. First, AFOLs can't even agree what they want. Do they want new track
geometry? Do they want DCC? Everyone speaks if they're the expert. Second,
they can't seem to believe their views are usually not inline with the business
goals of the company--kids don't need DCC for example, nor do they need
prototypical flanged wheels. Third, they feel their impact is a lot larger than
they really are. And finally, a lot of what they suggest may not actually be
feasible, given cost/time/market constraints.
So, it's not news to me that some suggestions can't be implemented. And in many
situations, your feedback may not be acted upon. I can live with that.
As for b) I don't think anything's really lost. It's not like we're preventing
the next Nobel prize winning thesis on relativity or cold fusion from being
published.
> Q4. Are members spending many of their community hours behind the scenes that
> they don't have time as much free time to dedicate to the public forums that
> they once had?
Now THAT one, yes, I would agree, is the case. But I think, at least in the NXT
case, it will be much for the better.
> Q5. If the individual departments within TLC alone can not corelate information
> with each other in a timely manner, are they capable of doing so with the
> various fan/company groups they are spearheading?
Does it matter? As long as AFOLs can be paired off with the corresponding group
that needs help, I think it shouldn't really be a problem.
> some input must make some improvements, but I wonder if the price we are paying
> is outweighing what is gained. I guess since no one can clearly let us know
> what is being gained, its difficult to judge. I have the feeling that other
> members here might have opinions and much better insight on this than I do.
Well, I ask you: Tell me what's the price that's being paid?
> 2. Is this a case of "Be careful what you wish for?" or are great strides
> being made behind the scenes between fan and company? (Aside from the brief
> mentions of the original NXT group saying their feedback affected the actual
> outcome of the product) details from direct relationship between fan and company
> and results of this alliance have been scarce. This is not to say it hasn't
> happened, it must have, I just have yet to see any announcement saying anything
> to the contrary, (although quite possible that I have missed it). For example,
> was Batman a result of fan involvement? Was that cute little one by one smooth
> slope?? Are the changes to the Factory? Etc.
Does it matter? If great strides aren't being made, is there a giant cosmic
balance that means we're losing somewhere else? If those contributions are
happening, but aren't being acknowledged, does it mean they're not important or
helpful?
Calum
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: MDP (was: Questions about fan involvement with TLC)
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| (...) Well, I'm sorry, but I have to ask - if you have so many other commitments, why did you apply? I'm sure there's many others who would have loved to participate, and have more time to contribute. Note: Certain members of the community will (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Questions about fan involvement with TLC
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| After an interesting chat about "Fan involvement with TLC" the other night, a few concerns/questions came up, and I can't seem to shake them. Historically a large portion of AfoL/ALE's have wanted a closer relationship with TLC and over the last few (...) (18 years ago, 10-Apr-06, to lugnet.general) !!
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