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After an interesting chat about "Fan involvement with TLC" the other night, a few concerns/questions came up, and I can't seem to shake them. Historically a large portion of AfoL/ALE's have wanted a closer relationship with TLC and over the last few (...) (18 years ago, 10-Apr-06, to lugnet.general) !!
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(...) Interesting questions. The NDA/Ambassador phenomenon does seem to have created an in-group and an out-group among AFOLs, and a certain amount of distrust both between and within them. I feel bad about it, but I can't help but discount the (...) (18 years ago, 10-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I'm under NDA, and have been thinking about this very thing. I have a blog entry about half-written about the subject, but - alas - I'm so busy it's been delayed a bit... (...) Yes. (...) Benefiting, with caveats, see below. (...) Absolutely (...) (18 years ago, 10-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) That's a good question. It's been a long time since I was 'prolific', but I am in the MDP. In general, NDA's cover confidential information actually disclosed (on purpose or accidently), not other informaiton. The problem comes in keeping (...) (18 years ago, 10-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Well not all the "AFOL big mouths" are in the program! ;-p As someone who's done his fair share of "positive critiquing" of TLG, I unfortunately have been busy mapping out the proverbial "Lego Genome" (all Lego sets/elements ever produced (...) (18 years ago, 10-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Janey, interesting questions, and I will not respond to them individually, but just give my overall "feeling" about things. I am not currently under NDA to TLC, but I have been in the past. As far as the interaction that happened while I was (...) (18 years ago, 10-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) I don't think so. Everything that is covered under my NDA is the sort of stuff that the community just doesn't know about. And a lot of stuff we are made aware of shortly before a community announcement. The only threads I can't really be (...) (18 years ago, 10-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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In lugnet.general, C. L. GunningCook wrote: For example, (...) I can pretty much say this is a definate "no." I knew about this line since about last April, and I think very few people knew about it. They were very paranoid about the news of this (...) (18 years ago, 10-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Hi Janey, Having been one of the non-NDA crowd up until quite recently, I can certainly understand your concerns. I had concerns about how the Ambassador program worked, and what the Ambassadors did, so I applied, and was fortunate enough to (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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In lugnet.general, C. L. GunningCook wrote: ...a lot of good stuff worth considering (URL) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX) !
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First, I am currently under 2 NDA's (Ambassador and MDP). (...) Personally, I had become much less prolific here on LUGNET long before signing a single NDA. Most of my efforts and attention had turned to my local club where I am a member of the EC (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) That is a very interesting little image you have there. Why did you make it? What is the message you are trying to send? On a broader note, I have heard a lot about mistrust between Ambassadors and non-Ambassadors, but I don't exactly (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) That is an interesting image. I have seen similar else where. I feel it best describes how the populace feels towards the silence from the ambassadors. Either we think alike, or some one is copying the other. (URL) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) In my role as art critic I would say that the message here is that the NDA makes the Ambassadors silent leading to upset in the community. Either that or it's a subtle statement on the war in Iraq and the state of African democracy. (...) You (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I dont have good enough drawring skillz to do anything as technical as what he made. But I am funny all the time Tim! And you better know it!! (URL) WORD! As for the other Ambassadors... well, some of them can't be funny because well, they (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I have to agree with Lenny on this one, I don't see a reason why there would be any mistrust? Is it the thought that we may be saying one thing and know that to not be the truth? Although we do have some extra information that we cannot (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Chris, Hahaha - looks like it wasn't such an original idea after all. When did you make that image? But it does reinforce the idea that there is a problem if at least two people came up with that idea. -- Thomas Main thomasmain@charter.net (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) (snip) (...) HI Jeff, are you coming to the rtl dinner on Thurs? I didn't see ANY reference to mistrust, or lies in this entire thread. Those seem to be words Lenny used. Neither Janey or anyone else ever accused any NDA'er of lying. To (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) Thomas, I did mine in a fit of boredom(1) on April 5th. Took me all of 5 minutes with MS Paint. Chris 1. Calum was on the phone going on and on about his favorite email client... PINE. he even did a cute pic.(2) (URL) 2. that image of the mail (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I can only speak for myself, but I think lack of communication has alot to do with it. Of course, this is by no means the fault of the Ambassadors themselves. Simply put, those of you who fall under the umbrella of a NDA are privy to a level (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) Its true. One thing that I've noticed just in general community trends is that people are active in the communities they love. Some are Train, some are classic-space,classic-castle, classic-clickits!!! Ok, I made up the last one, but you get (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I tried for 7 minutes to "fix it." I dont normally use the web interface. I gave up figuring smart people can cut and paste. Chris (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) "and a certain amount of distrust both between and within them." From (URL) here> (...) Then where does the lack of trust come from? Or to use your words, what is the problem? (...) What was the original intent, and how is it lacking? (...) (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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In lugnet.general, C. L. GunningCook wrote: Let me start with the disclaimer that I am on the NXT MDP, though I'm probably the least active member due to personal commitments right now. I barely know how to spell NXT. (...) No, I don't think so. (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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I'm under some NDA action and it hasn't affected my posting/building at all. The time commitments were always very minimal. My devotion is to the building-- the relationship with TLG was secondary. While I was an ambassador I was a bit more mindful (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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| | Re: MDP (was: Questions about fan involvement with TLC)
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(...) Well, I'm sorry, but I have to ask - if you have so many other commitments, why did you apply? I'm sure there's many others who would have loved to participate, and have more time to contribute. Note: Certain members of the community will (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) I think this is an interesting and valid set of questions. I think the answer to Q1 has two pieces. Yes, the NDA acts to silence people from making observations and suggestions because those comments may conflict with known facts. And yes, it (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Berate you? Not me, at any rate, although I can't speak for anyone else. But I DO find it interesting how you hone in on just one point so often. I do think in this case it's an interesting point, though. To widen it out a bit, it certainly (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Well unfortunately there was no "What are your current personal commitments" question on the application, so LEGO had no way to evaluate that information. Surely it makes more sense, and is much easier for the applicant to evaluate it, and (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Hi, this is a very interesting discussion! Concerning the Ambassadors I have heard that they had 1500 emails in only one season. If you have to read (and partly answer) 1500 e-mails, this will keep you busy enough to stay out of other forums. (...) (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) I could easily be misremembering the application, it was a while ago, but I do seem to recall some questions about the time that would be spent doing various things. (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Hmmm, I don't. But hey, memory can play tricks sometimes. ROSCO (18 years ago, 11-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Well then, I sit corrected on the "mis/dis" trust phrase. If you want to argue semantics, then might I suggest moving this to .debate. In the mean time, both YOU and Jeff, came out guns blazing, trying your darnedest to make sure you set "us" (...) (18 years ago, 12-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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Hello! (...) Actually I don't see that problem at all. Why would there be a lack of communication? Sure, there are some AFOLs who get per ambassadorship some insight in some activities within the LEGO group. Whenever they (the ambassadors) are (...) (18 years ago, 12-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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Janey, I think the big piece of information you and other may be looking for is what the next stage of the Ambassadors will be. Well, I might be skirting a little NDA here, but actually TLG has been training us as an elite task force to search out (...) (18 years ago, 12-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX) !!
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Holy cow that was funny enough for me to delurk just long enough to say so. :D -w (...) (18 years ago, 12-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I'm sorry, but you are just posing - some of us were actually in on the development of, um, "enforcement" tools, so we know the real story... surprised? Well, were did *you* think the Fleebnork originated? (18 years ago, 12-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) You're wicked! :-) JOHN (18 years ago, 12-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I don't know either, but I have reason to believe (*not* due to what LEGO has told me under an NDA) it could well be more than 400. (...) The NDA's are taking up more time for some of us - I only have so many hours in a day, that's true. But (...) (18 years ago, 12-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) I do plan on being there, and at that time I can explain why I have not been at any rtl Events for the past month :( (...) In all honesty Chris, and everyone else reading this, until just recently, we were not given information about new (...) (18 years ago, 12-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I agree. I think the difficulty is that many fans are simply expecting too much from the ambassador program. And again, I'll restate my earlier point; I believe that any mistrust is fueled largely by jealousy. Simply put; some (I won't say (...) (18 years ago, 12-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) AHA! I knew you guys were elitists. (...) LOL (18 years ago, 12-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) snip (...) See, now ~THAT~ is funny. good job. spotlighted Chris (18 years ago, 13-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I knew something weird was going on..... Lego Ambassador Dan Rubin pistol whipped a 38-year old man who asked "what's happening with Duplo?" at Sunday's WAMALUG meeting. The man wasn't technically "assassinated", but Dan has never let formal (...) (18 years ago, 13-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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In lugnet.general, C. L. GunningCook wrote: As a follow up... First of all I would like to thank everyone that took time to respond to my questions, it helped bring a new understanding and brought up some points I hadn't considered. I do want to (...) (18 years ago, 15-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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In lugnet.general, C. L. GunningCook wrote: <snip> (...) Well my motivation was that I am under NDA and thought that perspective needed to be heard (even if my NDA prevents me from saying very much specific). (...) Ultimately the price will be (...) (18 years ago, 15-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I don't think we can say that improved relations *is* the price we pay for the NDA and the Ambassador programs. I think it's more accurate to say that it's the *hope* and *desire* of most people, from AFOL's to the people at TLC, that the (...) (18 years ago, 15-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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In lugnet.general, C. L. GunningCook wrote: <snip> (...) I took your motivation as asking legitimate questions regarding a legitimate issue. (...) <snip (...) Is it me or are many people 'going underground' where discussions on LUGNET are concerned? (...) (18 years ago, 15-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Could be in some cases, because they are having trouble posting to LUGNET. Email posting confirmations are broken and have been for some time, but the problem is not known to everyone, and nor is the solution (use the web link in the email to (...) (18 years ago, 15-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) until Clark Stephens recommended to me that route. There needs to be a major announcement on this problem. I wonder how many others have this same problem. Maybe Lugnet isn't dying off.... just a lot of folks can no longer post, and haven't (...) (18 years ago, 15-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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Dave, Great post! There are possibilities for Ambassador "insider trading" in Lego, that is true. But with the huge volume of parts that are generated by TLG, I don't have much worry about someone hoarding all the parts. Even with all hoopla about (...) (18 years ago, 15-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Oops Eric, I guess sometimes I am not as clear as I should be... I meant, that people asked me those questions after my first post in this thread, and I just wanted to respond publicly, I certainly wasnt questioning the motives of any other (...) (18 years ago, 15-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) snipped (...) YES, yes they are! Which is how all of this sort of got started. (...) In the past I was only getting intermittent feedback on MOCs I have posted, by ppl that stated they were lurkers. But now... Like you, I am also getting more (...) (18 years ago, 15-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) I, for one, would welcome Lego re-releasing the Yellow Castle... I'd like to have a whole classic knight army, with flip-up visors. :) And I would also welcome Lego to re-release classic sets in classic colors if possible... I'm still not (...) (18 years ago, 15-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Today an opened 6067 complete with box, insert, and instructions sold for $124 on eBay. Guarded Inn's have not regained their previous value completely but "collector quality" mib and misb versions are still worth a lot. Many people may not be (...) (18 years ago, 15-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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[so this is now a discussion about discussions on LUGNET, right? Talk about your meta-discussions... <grin>] (...) Agreed. (...) To be honest, I was completely caught off-guard by this thread. I had *not* heard this (although to be fair most of my (...) (18 years ago, 15-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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Hi Ben, I believe the original germ of the idea of ~abuse~ was just a HYPOTHETICAL example. NO ONE has claimed that abuse has happened. In lugnet.general, Benjamin Ellermann wrote: snip (...) :) <--- notice this (cough) (cough) Swamberg(1) (cough) (...) (18 years ago, 16-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I never criticized your post--I think your question is a good one to be asked. That said, what I did question was: (...) As for b) I don't think anything's really lost. It's not like we're preventing the next Nobel prize winning thesis on (...) (18 years ago, 16-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) Chris is right, this is a hypothetical dicussion... but I not naive enough to believe that every Lego ambassador's motive is purely altruistic in nature... Probably a more realistic example is, if the LAs knew that next year, Lego will release (...) (18 years ago, 16-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(sniff) YEARS!!!! I was around from the "old days" (wipes single tear from eye) (1) I have enudured lots, the growing pains, the mocking, the "others."(2) The rise and fall and rise again of nations and empires. After a while, you just give up. You (...) (18 years ago, 16-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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| | Re: OT (was Questions about fan involvement with TLC)
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(...) Snipped most of Chris' melodrama (...) Rolls eyes Yeah, right, whatever! TO LUGNET MEMBERS~ Please refrain from ever saying Chris is "right". His ego alone is hard to take, with "proof" like this, he will never let us forget. He truly is darn (...) (18 years ago, 16-Apr-06, to lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) Yes, my original post brought up a hypothetical example with the 9 volt discussion--the potential of NDA/Ambassador abuse in a situation. And subsequent posts from others outlining how differnet types of abuse may occur shows that people have (...) (18 years ago, 18-Apr-06, to lugnet.general)
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