Debate : 26203


Off-Topic / Debate / 26203	26202 \| 26204

Subject:	Re: Is lgbt dead in the water? & Is religion dead in the water?
Newsgroups:	lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date:	Tue, 19 Oct 2004 03:05:34 GMT
Viewed:	1612 times

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, J. Spencer Rezkalla wrote:

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Avery Christy wrote:

But, there is the whole thing that our thoughts, our beauty, goes so far beyond simple biochemical reactions. If we only had biochemical reactions, then why are we not like the animals and other life forms around us?

How are we that different? Do we possess any unique basic attributes that set us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom, or do we simply possess a unique combination and degree of shared attributes? Animal research has suggested that we are not as different as we might think. Nevertheless we are unique, but so are other species.

Sure, we are heavily influenced by biochemical chemistry -- sex appeal/drive, instinct, illness, etc. But, we have the power to overcome it with our minds. We have the ability to exceed the sum of our parts. How is that scientifically possible? (Rhetorical question) We can so easily deny ourselves but eventually after all that doubting away we find that there is still something there doing the doubting. There is still something there, a mostly untapped potential, that can give us the extraordinary that we so often crave.

So, where does that come from? How can we rise to be more than a sum of our parts? Is not 2 + 2 = 4? Maybe there are some fascinating biochemical reactions that we have not studied yet?

Systems. You are simply describing some of the basic concepts of systems behavior. Complex systems behavior arising from simple components. Happens all the time both in biological and non-living systems. No magic there.

Spencer

So the whole can be completely, thoroughly, logically, scientifically explained by the sum of the parts? As in there’s no magic at all? If there are systems and components we don’t understand scientifically today, there will be a time in the future when we will have a scientific answer for those areas?

This is where your fallacy lies. Since you ‘live the science’ you can’t accept that there might be something outside the science, today or even in the future. You can’t accept the ‘magic’ that may be in the system.

Dave K

Message has 3 Replies:

		Re: Is lgbt dead in the water? & Is religion dead in the water?
(...) I see that as analogous to believing in an omnipotent God that has all the answers, and decides not to tell you them all just yet. (...) The operative word being "may". I don't happen to believe that everything is or will necessarily be (...) (20 years ago, 19-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

		Re: Is lgbt dead in the water? & Is religion dead in the water?
(...) The original poster wanted to know how we (our behavoir) could be more than the sum of our biological parts. I simply pointed out the relevance of such an issue in the context of systems engineering. That itself isn't magic, it is a well-known (...) (20 years ago, 19-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

		Re: Is lgbt dead in the water? & Is religion dead in the water?
(...) That's the wrong way to ask the question, IMO. Or at the very least you're setting a task for science that isn't science's responsibility to answer. The more precise phrasing is this: Are there systems and components in nature that cannot be (...) (20 years ago, 19-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Message is in Reply To:

		Re: Is lgbt dead in the water? & Is religion dead in the water?
(...) How are we that different? Do we possess any unique basic attributes that set us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom, or do we simply possess a unique combination and degree of shared attributes? Animal research has suggested that we are (...) (20 years ago, 18-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

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