Subject:
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Re: Is lgbt dead in the water?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:48:14 GMT
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Viewed:
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1151 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
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In lugnet.people.lgbt, Lee Meyer wrote:
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However, tolerance does not mean we accept or affirm or approve
of their views. It is illogical to say to someone, ‘I disagree with your
view, but I also accept and approve of your view.’ No, tolerance is that we
hold our own view to be the correct one, but recognize another’s freedom to
have a different view - just don’t expect me to support your view if I
believe you are wrong. You are confusing tolerance with approval, and so
your claim of intolerance just doesn’t wash with me.
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True tolerance entails the recognition that one’s own views are not
inherently or absolutely correct, but are instead correct for oneself, and
perhaps very strongly held. Attendant upon this is the realization that
other people’s views might be correct for them and equally strongly held.
You say that “tolerance is that we hold our own view to be the correct one,
but recognize another’s freedom to have a different view.” That’s simply
incorrect, IMO. In essence, you’re saying “I’m actually right, but if you
want to pretend that you’re right, then that’s fine.” That’s an
aggressively smug position to take, by the way.
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As far as being misinformed, I would love to hear just what I am misinformed
about. Give me a little more than a one sentence hack at me.
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Misinformed? I don’t know--I’ll reread your posts and get back to you on
that. However, I would mention that you have a seriously flawed and
self-serving notion of tolerance, and I suppose that this notion may result
from your being misinformed.
Dave!
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Hi Dave, well I certainly can tell by your views you are a moral relativist from
your distorted definition of tolerance. There are absolutes in the world.
Moral, logical absolutes. There are universal truths that apply to everyone,
across all times and places and circumstances. Murder is always wrong. Two
plus two is always four. You cannot simultaneously be both for and against the
same side of an issue and be right on both sides.
Just tell me if you are positive, without any doubt whatsoever, that there are
no moral absolutes, a easy yes or no answer.
The fact that you hold such a strong moral view on what you believe tolerance is
shows that you too are susceptible to believing in absolutes. You certainly
seem to think you are much more correct than I am. I would simply throw your
own argument back at you and say, How can you be sure you’re correct? Why
should I trust your view over mine when you preface your statements that you
think is right for you, could be wrong for me? Maybe you shouldn’t be
criticizing my view because it could very well be right for me. And maybe you
should stop thinking I shouldn’t share it with others because others may see it
and say it is right for them, too. If all viewpoints are relative, I have as
much right to state mine and convince others my view is one they should have,
too. Just like you do.
Lee
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Is lgbt dead in the water?
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| (...) Lee, this is an interesting argument against moral relativism - but I doubt Dave is arguing on behalf of moral relativisim. You have assign this belief to him, and then proceeded to attack that belief, all the while you ignore the discussion (...) (20 years ago, 14-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | Re: Is lgbt dead in the water?
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| (...) First of all, let me say thank you to Lenny for his (URL) input>. He is quite correct that it is falacious to caricature the position of one's opponent and then attack that position as if it were the real one. That's the classic (URL) Straw (...) (20 years ago, 14-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | Re: Is lgbt dead in the water?
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| (...) That's true, if viewed in a certain light. Murder is always wrong, but societies define "murder" according to their own sense of morality. Many people would consider executing criminals to be murder. Texans do not. Many people would consider (...) (20 years ago, 14-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Is lgbt dead in the water?
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| (...) True tolerance entails the recognition that one's own views are not inherently or absolutely correct, but are instead correct for oneself, and perhaps very strongly held. Attendant upon this is the realization that other people's views might (...) (20 years ago, 13-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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