Subject:
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Re: We love our guns!!-- was Re: Dan Rather is a Useful Idiot Extraordinare
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:06:56 GMT
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Viewed:
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684 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
>
> > I plainly, clearly, and straight forwardly said that removing guns from the
> > criminals as well as the citizens will reduce the gun related violence.
> > Less guns = less gun related violence. Truth. Deal with it.
>
> But I think the point that was made to you in response to that assertion is
> that it is a canard-- it will never happen, and so you really could never prove
> it anyway.
>
> But people have thought along those lines and tried to ban guns anyway. Again
> it was pointed out that in all cases, disarming the population *increases*
> violent crime. It's a no brainer. If the bad guy is the only one with a gun,
> he will be *emboldened*, not thwarted. Taking my gun away does not magically
> disarm the bad guy.
>
> So unless you are able to enact your premise "No guns = no gun related
> violence" (which Larry conceded you, BTW), your statement is false (as borne
> out *in reality*). Truth. Deal with it.
>
> JOHN
Do criminals make their guns? Do they have gunsmithing shops in the back of
their barns where they can make their .22's and ammo?
Well, no.
So where do the criminals get their guns?
Well, I can think off the top of my head a variety of sources...
So let's follow the chain of events that land guns into the hands of thugs...
There's the gun manufacturing plant, which, presumably has quite tight stock
control (I'd hope) so the disappearing of guns out of the manufactuing plant
into the hands of criminals, I'd logically surmise, is pretty low, but more
on this later.
Then the guns are, presumably, transported to retailers--I'd imagine that
some of the transportation vehicles get hijacked, but I haven't read too
much about that. The black market, to be sure, probably receives a few guns
from this source.
Retailers--there was a posting a long time ago that some shops don't keep
very good records of guns that leave their stores--let us suppose, for the
sake of concession, that those 'oversights' are few and far between. But
stores can get robbed--the guns can enter the hands of criminals in this
fashion.
Then there is the 'lawful' gun owner, who purchases a gun and takes it home
'to protect himself' against all sorts of mean nasty ugly folks, who just
happen to also have guns. Can a gun get stolen out of a house? Again, I'd
even concede that most gun owners keep their armamnets locked up, but there
would still be some guns that can be stolen from people's homes.
There are other ways for guns to end up in the hands of criminals--stolen
from the inventory of the police, off-shore shipping and such--all pretty
valid ways, imho, for guns to end up in the hands of criminals.
So let's trace it back--
Gun manufacturing--some guns can get to criminals
Gun shipping--some guns can get to criminals
Gun stores--some guns can get to criminals
Gun owners--some guns can get to criminals
Confiscated guns--some guns can get into the hands of criminals
Now, if the gun manufacturing plant were to produce less guns, what happens
to this chain of events? The criminals don't make their guns--they
steal/purchase on the black market, or even purchase lawfully the guns used
in their crimes. Less guns *all around* means less guns for the criminals.
There is no fallacy.
Gun related violence on the rise because of gun control? Is this the same
logic used with 'red light cameras cause accidents'?
She's a kid that has a bullet in her because of a snowball fight she wasn't
even in.
Yeah, I'll keep worrying about the safety of your fellow citizens whilst you
keep worrying about your archaic piece of paper and your 'false security'
from your gun.
Dave K
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