 | | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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In lugnet.lego.direct, Jake McKee writes: [...] (...) Thank you, Jake. I just wanted to confirm my suspicion.[1] Such a lack of maturity from one who's actions reflect on The LEGO Company is very disappointing. But, your 'using' of this community is (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct) !!
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ouch. I saw this and was so appalled I just had to reply. I don't know Jake, but to see Suzanne make assumptions about his character and his motivations is shocking. The tenor of Jake's verbage is clear and professional. By contrast, the tenor of (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) I don't know Suz.... It seems like it wouldn't take much for TLC to return to their activity level in the early days of LUGNET, ei. no communication back to the community. In the early days we knew that TLC employees were reading our posts and (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) Suzanne - As someone who has worked with Jake on many occasions, I find this post gravely offensive and an uncalled for personal attack. In all my experience with him, before and after taking the position at LEGO Direct, he has been nothing (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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Sad. To see the supposed 'Center of the LEGO Online Community' adopt such tactics and immaturity over an issue that should have been dealt with in email in the first place shows one thing clearly to me: Everyone who has been telling me that LUGNET (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct, lugnet.starwars) !
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I have mixed feelings about this whole thread, but the one person that comes closest to expressing views I can agree with is Ben. I do think there is a gap that does and probably should exist between "fans" and an official company person. I think (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) I am disappointed in you, Suz. Your post was rude and uncalled for, and Jake deserves an apology. It is also a prime example of why the level of interaction between the community and Lego has dropped recently. How can you expect anyone to post (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) Why? I see no reason to differentiate between two people simply because one had the luck and skill to get a job at the same place we would all love to work for. It seems to me that an employee of Lego is more likely to be an AFOL than not, and (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup? (everyone’s overreacting!)
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~O.K. now everyone’s overreacting! Lugnet is looking out for it’s best interests… Lego is looking out for it’s best interest… And I'm sure FBTB is doin’ the same thing too… But before anybody does anything rash lets just take a step back and reflect (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I know that I personally harbor a fear of LUGNET becoming a platform for free advertising for TLC. I don't really know what harm would befall the community from that, but it seems somehow wrong. I don't know how to express this fear (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) To Suz et All, I, as many of the members of the community, am thoroughly disappointed with your course of action, Suz. Infantile isn't descriptive enough of a word to talk about what you've just done. Not only have you shot yourself in the (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) One thing I seen....is the apparent lack of "care" TLC has really put forth in north america. There still is a wide gaps in quality products between Europe and North America. Sure its nice to have 2 fulfillment centers, but why does one have (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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Interesting… How you presume to know the intricacy of the situation at hand between two individuals!?! And what is even more fascinating is how you endeavor to draw judgment and call for an “apology” from this individual. And all this regarding a (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) I think that you two have been tremendously good at thinking into the future and setting things up right to avoid all kinds of potential pitfalls. But in this case, what harm could crop up that you could not remedy if you just let them post (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) To all: this is my last post here, but I feel strongly that this has to be said. Please forgive my bluntness. Suz: I just wanted to say a personal thanks to you for singlehandedly driving the self-proclaimed "friendliest place on the internet" (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct) !!
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(...) I'll stay out of the more heated portion of this and let Suzanne reply to the other stuff when she gets a free moment, but I can answer the above portion, at least from my personal viewpoint, by giving links to some previous posts: (4 URLs) (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) As far as these types of things go, I think the response we've gotten from TLC is that Europe's just a better/more loyal consumer than North America. I remember (I think at BrickFest '01? Maybe a different time...) Brad talking about stores in (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) Perhaps so, but only because the representatives of the fandom have made it at times difficult to remain fans (of this particular interactive medium, at least). If Jake is truly worried that AFOL's will object to such LD comments as "we can't (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) This whole thread has gotten out of hand! This seems to be the point where the "public" communications fall apart. I don't wish to take sides, particularly where we're all assumed to be on the *same* side. For what it's worth, what I see here (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) Todd, isn't the very existance of Lugnet a de facto advertisement for Lego, and isn't that a good thing? I mean, everyone here is a Lego consumer, by definition. AFOL: Adult Friend Of Lego. We all buy Legos. We all like building with Legos. We (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) I meant that it seems, in retrospect, as though TLC has done so much taking and so little giving. That tends to makes me feel uneasy from time to time. (...) As I understand it, it has always been important to TLC that it not sponsor (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) I think the initial intent was to keep from being "strongarmed" by Lego into actually being a real commercial force. IE, ad banners, ONLY pro-Lego propaganda (no flames on TLC's business decisions, etc, like juniorization qualms), etc. Also, (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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"LUGNET Admin" <suz@lugnet.com> skrev i meddelandet news:GxpBMz.4q4@lugnet.com... (...) You may be right, Suz, and you may be wrong... The way you've handled this doesn't seem very mature to me... The issue should have been kept in private e-mail, (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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"Benjamin Medinets" <bmedinets@excite.com> wrote in message news:GxpK80.59p@lugnet.com... <snip> (...) objectives (...) </snip> I've one answer to this unfair treatment: 3033 Duq (from europe) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Terms of Use violation (was Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?)
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Todd, Dan, etc.: This user, "LUGNET Admin" <suz@lugnet.com> is engaging in personal attacks. Please disable her access until she is ready to apologize for this wholly inappropriate response. XFUT: lugnet.admin.general (Suz: You have lost the (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct, lugnet.admin.general) !!
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While I don't know enough to comment on TLC presence at Lugnet, I can say if I got treated this way, I would shy away from posting/dealing with Lugnet too. One cannot treat folks in a hostile, suspicious manner and expect them to be overjoyed to (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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I must say I am very disappointed. I knew Lugnet has been going downhill for some time, but this just confirmed my fears. When the administrator of the site engages in the same bickering that she comdemns that shows lack of proper leadership. (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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I just had to say something here. I know I'm not a very influencial person around lugnet, and I know I've made a few enemies here. I know that I've opened my mouth and caused a lot of problems here on lugnet, and if the current terms of use had been (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics: Even if you win, you're still retarded. (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Terms of Use violation (was Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?)
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And then you turn around and attack Suz personally, I think you should be banned also. All you really needed was your first paragraph.. Tamy (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I don't. I can only respond to what's been made public, and with this issue, a heck of a lot of it has been made public. (...) I can call for an apology because if I were in Jake's position, I would have been quite offended by Suz's post. (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) Not anymore you don't. -- Hop-Frog (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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Wow, I can barely stand the heat from this firestorm. Listen all, bottom line on this site is that it belongs to Todd and Suz, and they are fully entitled to do whatever they chose. It really does not matter what we users think or demand, ultimately (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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In lugnet.lego.direct, Suzanne D. Rich writes: [some snippage here...] (...) Er...I tend to usually avoid these type of posts, and the debate column because I am usually outspoken, but I have to get a say here, and of course, I have a few questions. (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) As opposed to the "over-care" of the past decades? I think what you consider "lack of care" is actually the LEGO company realising that there are markets outside the US, and that if they don't stop being a US-centric company, they will end up (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) This is bad. Very, very bad. Suz, this is far more than anybody on lugnet needed to know. Nothing good is going to come from this. (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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I don't know either of these people, but the fact that this discussion is being held out in the open for all of the LUGNET community to watch seems pretty immature to me. Sincerely, Aaron Muhl Lifetime Lego fan 5 Year LUGNET fan Not a fan of this (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Terms of Use violation (was Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?)
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(...) Actually Bill Ward is right... as an admin, Suz needs to lead by example. What she posted earlier today was in my opinion very shocking and inappropriate. I have to also look at her flaming policy as of late and "judge her by her own words"... (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Well that is one approach to looking at it...yes for several...errr... many years North America (US and Canada) was spoiled. I'll have to agree somewhat to the approach you are taking. I don't disagree with a world point of view. My qualms is (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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EWOK!!!...!!! (...) 8< YUBB YUBB >8 (...) 8< YUBB YUBB >8 (...) 8< YUBB YUBB >8 (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) I don't buy this stance. I prefer discussions like this to be held openly. I _like_ the fact that we get to put in our two cents. Todd and Suz are both seriously bright folks, but they just can't think of everything. Why shouldn't we know (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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(...) It is my experience with "message board" systems that some people like to take part in a heated discussion from time to time. When someone posts something which is regarded as foolish by a majority, there are commonly a lot of people who jump (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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(...) I know it's your playhouse and you can do how you choose, but you are not being a very good host with responses such as this Suz. You really should follow the posting proceedures regarding comments of this nature and send email to Jake if this (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup? (everyone’s overreacting!)
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In response to your comment Richard, Although harsh, I think that it is fair for Tim to be disgusted. Tim approached the situation diplomatically, (even though the intial comment was not intended at him, it still affected him and his website a great (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct, lugnet.starwars, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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(...) In lugnet.lego.direct, Tony Kilaras writes: (...) Well, I certainly see that now.. :-( After my posting yesterday, I had to return to my job, where there are no computers. So, not until 6 p.m., when I got home, did I receive my accumulated (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct) !!
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<snip> That must have been a very tough post to write, Suz. My hat is off to you. Here's hoping for the best going forward. ++Lar (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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Suz's post must have been difficult to write. She's right about screwing up, but who here hasn't done something they regret? I have enjoyed LUGNET for years, and have this is my first post. Clearly people are upset by Suz's behaviour, and want to (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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(...) I think that's a really good idea. I'll ask Dan and Todd about coding for it. Polls are good because lurkers are apt to participate. And with the member system, it'll be easy to prevent multi-submissions. but of course that means only members (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct, lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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(...) Hug all 'round! Seriously, thanks, Suz, for your apology post. Hopefully all the heat around this thread will die down soon. Perhaps that post should also be sent directly to Jake? This thread is pretty huge and it might be hard to find in (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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(...) Don't let your irrational fears hold you back. Define them and deal with them. I work in a big business. The objective is to avoid biting the hand that feeds, avoid killing the golden goose etc. I think you can trust TLC to generally respect (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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In lugnet.lego.direct, Suzanne D. Rich writes: [quite a thoughtful post] Well, I must say you put a lot of thought into this, but as they say, nobody is perfect. This post must have really taken some time to word, but I commend you for your effort (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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I must say that I couldn't post onto this thread because I know how it feels to be personally attacked by others, though my experience was far less than yours. I innocently posted something, that in my mind was okay, and everyone attcked me, my (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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(...) Wow. That was a very strong post, Suz. I refused to join in the attack on you mostly because I don't have a very good attitude about LEGO myself at the moment, but I was another one who was amazed at your post and wondered. You've shown great (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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"LUGNET Admin" <suz@lugnet.com> writes: [...] (...) [...] Thank you for this. I accept your apology and I hope that you can successfully mend the rift with TLC. I am very glad to see your prompt (given the circumstances) reply. I support you and (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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In lugnet.lego.direct, Suzanne D. Rich writes: [snipped a GoodPost (tm?)] Suz, This was actually the post I've been waiting for. I have been following this thread, wondering what could have made you so angry. You see, I have been around LUGNET for a (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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Suz: I don't think you did anything wrong. These people seem to be spring loaded to he pi**ed off position. After all is said and done this is still just a toy and if it is all that important to all these people to get so upset they need to get a (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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(...) I try to avoid the 'me too' kind of post, but this is how I feel as well. Thanks for presenting your side of the story and I hope that Lugnet, as a body, can learn a little restraint on the 'reply' button. I'm very sorry that the reactions to (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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(...) Jeez. I used to think that the overall tone of lugnet changed the day Todd took a pointed leave of absence too, but I think this is wrong-headed thinking. While Suz doesn't always come across as the friendliest person online -- I recognize (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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I for one do not think that Lugnet changed after Todd left. It is still the great place that it was. I think that all the complaining people should go get out a Lego set and build it. Makes more sense that spending hours worrying that Lugnet is bad. (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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(...) Things are okay. Jake and Brad will be meeting with Todd and me during Brickfest. We're going to look at things afresh. I'm sure this'll be a good thing. -Suz (22 years ago, 18-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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(...) Indeed. For the record, it is exactly this kind of immaturity that drove me away from LUGNET in the first place. What immaturity? Not Jake's. I don't trust anyone whose motivation is to sell me something. It's a knee-jerk reaction. He has (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct, lugnet.general) !
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| | Re: Why the absence of LD in their own newsgroup?
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(...) <snip> (...) <snip> Why should Lego have to bribe us with donations and unprofitable products? Allowing Lego to post here doesn't seem like bending over backwards to me. Lego's reps are restricted to posting in a forum where all they hear are (...) (22 years ago, 19-Jun-02, to lugnet.lego.direct)
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