 | | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) My code worked too but my point was to say that the part is not correct, there could be some cases where it won't work and besides that, it won't look good if you render it with a program that has backface culling. How are you going to save (...) (25 years ago, 6-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) I guess you can download one from (URL) (25 years ago, 6-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) OK, then help out a Java-dummy: are there JDK's available on the net, or are they purchase-only? Steve (25 years ago, 6-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Is the windscreen from set 4564 in ldraw?
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I swear I saw a pov-ray rendering using this piece. It might have been made using another pov-ray library but I swear it had that piece. What is the part # of this part? Just so there is no confusion the rendering definatly was not using the boat (...) (25 years ago, 6-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: MI/X (Was: LeoCAD for Linux (Was: Compiling MPD Builder/Splitter for DOS/Win?))
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(...) Trouble...not sure. (...) (URL) all OSS, so it makes life easier. I beleive (don't know) that the VNC client for Mac is stable, it's just the server that is beta. You'll need the matching packages for your linux system. They come in .deb and (...) (25 years ago, 5-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.geek, lugnet.cad, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) I choose rays so that they may orient one face. With this face I use a sort of flood-fill algorithm (please try to find on of my previuos message) to orient al neighbors. Once a face is oriented, I don't look at it anymore. But, your idea (...) (25 years ago, 5-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) Sorry Leonardo, but I checked 105 again my code: it does the right job! Ok, you can argue it's pure luck. In fact, it is! If a ray went through the hole between the flag and the rest of the piece, my code would invert the flag orientation. (...) (25 years ago, 5-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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Steve Bliss wrote in message <37f9f5c6.74291430@l...et.com>... (...) not (...) inversion. (...) For WizardCAD I was intending to change the behavior of the mirror functions depending on what type of file the user opened the file as. If they open a (...) (25 years ago, 5-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Track names (was Re: To Tore Eriksson)
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(...) Don´t bother to dig the set up. Tore found an instuction scan at (URL) it clearly shows that the track parts from this set also have slots in them. Greetings, Manfred Moolhuysen. (25 years ago, 5-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Comprehensive meta-command list
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(...) The last three parameters define a vector, not angles. The nested commands are rotated <angle> degrees around the vector. To rotate 45 degrees around X, do: 0 ROTATE 45 1 0 0 ... To rotate -45 degress around Y, you can do this: 0 ROTATE 45 0 (...) (25 years ago, 5-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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(...) True. But mirroring is an advanced technique. Well, maybe intermediate-level. Anyway, it's not for beginners. (...) True. Allowing mirroring/inversion for parts authors allows them to use a single set of primitives, while keeping part-files (...) (25 years ago, 5-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Track names (was Re: To Tore Eriksson)
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(...) You could not find it with that loose and sloppy description! :-) (URL) Sorry about that! (...) You're right, slots are a better name than notches for the openings. However I would say that "tabs" are a better name for the part on the sleeper (...) (25 years ago, 5-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Comprehensive meta-command list
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I've got a zillion bug reports about mpds to sort through. Hopefully it will handle them better than 1.6 :). -gyug (...) (25 years ago, 5-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Comprehensive meta-command list
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(...) Great! Out of curiousity, how well does the upcoming version of LDlite (1.7 isn't it?) handle MPDs? --Bram Bram Lambrecht / o o \ BramL@juno.com ---...---oooo-----(_...o---...--- WWW: (URL) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Signed up for MindFest
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I'm so happy! I have to post this list. From the online LEGO community, we have some great representation signed up for MindFest at MIT. Names marked with a (*) are guest speakers. NELUG will have an exhibit table and a welcoming evening. LDraw (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.robotics.events, lugnet.loc.us.ma.bos, lugnet.announce, lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | Re: Interpreting the proposed FACE meta-command
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Steve Bliss wrote in message <37f8c4a9.238320530@...et.com>... (...) Well, I have nothing against anticlockwise, but it's redundant. Seeing ACW where one expects CW or CCW may confuse some people. I checked the dictionary because I honestly didn't (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Comprehensive meta-command list
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Paul Gyugyi: [ kind of announced the next LDLite version ] Cool. Jacob (who should try to get LDLite to run on Linux) ---...--- -- E-mail: sparre@cats.nbi.dk -- -- Web...: <URL:(URL) -- ---...--- (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Track names (was Re: To Tore Eriksson)
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(...) 4555? (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex
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John VanZwieten wrote in message ... (...) Actually, I count three ideas. (...) messy. (...) when (...) the (...) to (...) only (...) have (...) in (...) CW (...) slightly (...) for (...) The third option, which I believe would be best, is similar (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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Steve Bliss wrote in message <37f8c86b.239282689@...et.com>... (...) But more often than not, when mirroring an element or subassembly, it's not the intent of the author to turn it inside out. Typical model builders shouldn't concern themselves (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Comprehensive meta-command list
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Paul Gyugyi wrote in message <37F8CE0C.13D582C9@g...yi.com>... (...) Cool! This could be very handy. I'll add it to the DAT format page I'm writing. -Gary (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Comprehensive meta-command list
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Lars C. Hassing wrote in message <939050465.592693@ns.cci.dk>... (...) True. But when manually examining a file, if you come across a 0 INVERT you wouldn't know whether this was the beginning or the end of the inverted references, without a bit of (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex [DAT]
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It seems to me that there are two major "camps" in the CW/CCW debate. A. Face-by-Face Method This method suggests that CW-ness be ultimately evaluated on a face-by-face basis. Each quad in a primitive or part would hold a value of CW,CCW, or (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Comprehensive meta-command list
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(...) True. '0 INVERT END' may be allowed as a syntactic convenience to authors. Or 0 INVERT could be rewritten as 0 INVERT [ON|OFF|TOGGLE] where TOGGLE would be the default action. (...) [example snipped] 0 INVERT is different from 0 FACE [CW|CCW] (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Comprehensive meta-command list
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(...) Hooray! :) (...) Hooray! :) Steve (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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Jacob: (...) Steve: (...) Jacob: (...) It happens every once in awhile. Actually, which approach *would* be better? Examining the transformation matrix to determine the state of inversion, and adjusting the CW/CCW setting to correct for it, would (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Interpreting the proposed FACE meta-command
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(...) Recognizing multiple forms of the command shouldn't add much to rendering. Each file can be parsed once, and then the post-parsing results cached, for later re-reference. The FACE meta-command would be stored as an opcode and a single (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files [DAT]
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(...) Forgot the footnote: 1- There's an interesting distinction between 'valid' and 'well-formed' contructions. LDraw will allow line-breaks as whitespace in commands, so: 1 16 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 3001.dat is valid, but it's not well-formed. (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Comprehensive meta-command list
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Steve: (...) Yes. (...) Yes. Play well, Jacob ---...--- -- E-mail: sparre@cats.nbi.dk -- -- Web...: <URL:(URL) -- ---...--- (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Track names (was Re: To Tore Eriksson)
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(...) I'm curious Chris, in what sets was that the case ? And do these gray ones have those "negative" tapered ends, just like the old blue track had ? In lugnet.cad.dev, Larry Pieniazek writes: (...) Gimme a set number for "the wildwest miningish" (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Comprehensive meta-command list
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(...) Yes, they do. In the example above, the first meta-command, 0 TRANSLATE 20 0 0, would persist until the end of the file. (...) I think I know the answer to this question, but just to be sure: is the 0 INVERT meta-command transparent to (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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(...) I've been thinking the exact opposite -- mirroring should be a valid method for turning subfiles inside-out, and the software doesn't need to do anything special to deal with it (except to notice the inversion, and pass that info on to the (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Interpreting the proposed FACE meta-command
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(...) Why not recognize it all ways: 0 FACE ACW 0 FACE ANTICLOCKWISE 0 FACE CCW 0 FACE CLOCKWISE 0 FACE COUNTERCLOCKWISE 0 FACE CW 0 FACE DOUBLESIDED 0 FACE DS 0 FACE UNKNOWN This adds a bit to the parser, but not so much. The recommended standard (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) No (like Gary said). Two reasons: 1. The 0 FACE directive would be an operative switch, not a global setting. This is convenient, but it is also necessary in some cases. Most importantly, it would allow the 0 FACE meta-statement to appear (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) That's what we're doing now--figuring out what the standard should be. Both the function and the syntax. But "standard" is an odd term in this case. In my mind the LDraw standard is defined as "code which is recognized and interpreted by (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) Neither do I, but I also know how hard it is to visually check a part for errors. (...) How does that work? Is it based on what the majority of the rays deterimine? I probably need to re-read some of the messages in this thread, to get a (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: New Group Idea
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OK, so my minifig-scale models of Barbie and Tux the Penguin have nowhere to go? -gyug (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Comprehensive meta-command list
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There will be support added for "0 INCLUDE filename.dat" in the next release, which will insert the text from filename.dat into the current file. This differs from a type 1 line, since the scope stack is not pushed and popped. For example, "0 COLOUR (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Comprehensive meta-command list
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Gary Williams wrote in message ... (...) No, never needed, since "0 INVERT" is a toggle! (...) Since INVERT is directly related to the CW and CCW parameters of the FACE meta-command, why not let it be yet another parameter to FACE ? I think the (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) You need to have someone to check the parts, take a look at the picture at (URL) (from 105.DAT), there's a missing face and the program won't be able to handle that. There are other parts like that, just start checking and you'll see. Leonardo (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Interpreting the proposed FACE meta-command
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Jacob Sparre Andersen wrote in message ... (...) I was just trying to be consistent...:) I'd be just as happy if they were all spelled-out. But I'd like to avoid supporting both abbreviations and the complete spelling. Every additional test that (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Interpreting the proposed FACE meta-command
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Gary Williams: (...) Very sensible (now that Steve has convinced me). (...) Hmm. I don't like it, but we have already abbreviated (counter)clockwise, so it does make sense to abbreviate double-sided too. :-( Play well, Jacob ---...--- -- E-mail: (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Interpreting the proposed FACE meta-command
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Michael Lachmann wrote in message ... (...) Here's my take on the matter. The meta-command: 0 FACE <CW|CCW|DS|UNKNOWN> ...should only be used to indicate the order of the vertices of the polygons _in the file that contains it_. If A.dat has a '0 (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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Jacob Sparre Andersen wrote in message ... (...) also (...) but (...) the (...) an (...) Is this the standard now, or at least could we make it the standard ???? Mike (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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Steve Bliss wrote in message <37f6c258.270062819@...et.com>... (...) 30 (...) Does that mean if a program would find the CW directive it can assume that every-thing in this file is compliant? E.g. the program would not have to test if possible (...) (25 years ago, 4-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: New Group Idea
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(...) I think Tore was only joking. (Note that he followed his comment with a B-) smiley...) --Todd (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) I really don't like programs that need user interactions for such job! Thus I tried to cast enough rays so that all the faces are being oriented correctly. Now all the std bricks are OK, without any assumption about the fact that they are (...) (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) you should consider that there are a lot of such groups of sides in one brick! Thus, the approach described by Leonardo is better: (...) Now, my main problem is: how can I find enough time to translate and check all the bricks! I guess my (...) (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Comprehensive meta-command list
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Jacob Sparre Andersen wrote in message ... (...) These operations nest, rather than override, if I read (URL) correctly. (...) I think that would be best. -Gary (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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Bram Lambrecht wrote in message <19991003.083644.509...no.com>... (...) No. Our software will detect mirror operations and correct for them. -Gary (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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(...) I mirror sub-parts often in my models (for hoses, wings, etc.). Would this require an INVERT? --Bram Bram Lambrecht / o o \ BramL@juno.com ---...---oooo-----(_...o---...--- WWW: (URL) (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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Steve: (...) Hmm??? Yes you're right (again :-). Play well, Jacob ---...--- -- E-mail: sparre@cats.nbi.dk -- -- Web...: <URL:(URL) -- ---...--- (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Comprehensive meta-command list
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Gary Williams: (...) Yes, but I don't think they are well known anyway: 0 TITLE <description> is an alternative to just using the first line in a file for the description of the file. 0 NOFILE terminates a model in a MPD file (so does another FILE (...) (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) Instead of asking the user, the program could first try to cast rays and then only if there are any faces left it asks the user. I've started writing my own converter and it worked correctly with the 'standard' bricks but had a few problems (...) (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Comprehensive meta-command list
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I'm attempting to compile a list of all meta-commands...did I miss anything? Current (From the LDraw FAQ): 0 <description> If the first line of the file is a comment, it's assumed to be the description of the file. 0 STEP Used to indicate the end of (...) (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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Steve Bliss wrote in message <37f4edd7.8510607@lu...et.com>... (...) are (...) rotated (...) thinking. (...) Possibly. I'm not to great when it comes to expressing myself. I think if an even number of mirror operations are performed on a part, its (...) (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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(...) OIC now. I think. If an asymmetrical part is mirrored, it keeps the same shape, but is turned inside out. To get it right-side-out again, it must be re-mirrored. In other words, there's no way to produce left- and right-handed pairs of (...) (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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(...) Jacob: (...) Why? Having a negative determinate *should* turn subfiles inside-out. IMO. That's a useful function. Having programs checking determinates is not useful, and wastes rendering time. Steve (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) We're it. So to speak. Steve (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files [DAT]
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(...) 578 is compliant because it contains *only* subfile references, which have been verified to not mess up (C)CW-ness. But that doesn't mean the *subfiles* are compliant. It also assumes the compliant subfiles are oriented the way the author (me) (...) (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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Steve Bliss wrote in message <37f6c0d9.269680202@...et.com>... (...) Doh, you posted mere minutes before me and said the same thing. :) -Gary (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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Jean-Pierre PARIS wrote in message <37F660FB.1EC77AC9@w...doo.fr>... (...) I see where you're coming from now. You're right. (...) could (...) It's starting to sound like user intervention would be needed in most, if not all, cases. Maybe it would (...) (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) This isn't automatic, but what if the program interrogates the user to pick a side which is facing outward? From that information, the program could then mark-up all adjacent sides. If the program ran out of sides, it could re-interrogate for (...) (25 years ago, 3-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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Jacob Sparre Andersen wrote in message ... (...) That works for me. I don't suppose there's an official standards-setting body of people charged with voting on extensions to the .dat format, is there? Maybe it's time to form one. -Gary (25 years ago, 2-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) Sorry, but I think that the even/odd algorithm only work on 'correct' solids. For example, if you take a 'bad' box made of 6 faces that have holes beween them, your algorithm can lit an inside face. And in some parts, such a situation exists. (...) (25 years ago, 2-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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Gary Williams: (...) I still think using 0 FACE ( CW | CCW | DOUBLE-SIDED | UNKNOWN ) is most practical. Play well, Jacob ---...--- -- E-mail: sparre@cats.nbi.dk -- -- Web...: <URL:(URL) -- ---...--- (25 years ago, 2-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: POV --> JPG,GIF
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(...) Mine save to .bmp files - which you can open in Windows Paint. Same thing, Paint Shop Pro works... I prefer to run with the pros and get Photoshop :) -Tim <>< (URL) timcourtne ICQ: 23951114 How to rob a bank in ancient Rome: "Catapultam habeo. (...) (25 years ago, 2-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: POV --> JPG,GIF
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(...) Hrmmm... doesn't POV save it as a TGA file? Just find something that will convert those files to JPG. Paint Shop Pro comes to mind: (URL) looks like I need to upgrade - they're up to version 6. (25 years ago, 2-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | POV --> JPG,GIF
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Heya ! How can I convert a POV file to JPG or GIF file ? Thanx ! Rene e-mail: virsik@sco.svf.stuba.sk (25 years ago, 2-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: New Group Idea
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(...) Ahem, I think the point of Todd calling a clones group 'Evil' was to say 'Keep LDraw pure, we don't need any of that imitation garbage.' :) -Tim <>< (URL) timcourtne ICQ: 23951114 How to rob a bank in ancient Rome: "Catapultam habeo. Nisi (...) (25 years ago, 2-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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Michael Lachmann wrote in message ... (...) I retract my earlier suggestion. I'd prefer to test for '0 CW-compliant' than '0 CW*' because checking for an exact string match is usually easier. Not supporting wildcards also promotes consistency. (...) (25 years ago, 2-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: MI/X (Was: LeoCAD for Linux (Was: Compiling MPD Builder/Splitter for DOS/Win?))
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[ FUT lugnet.off-topic.geek ] Doc: (...) I don't get as far as connecting to _any_ Linux machine. (...) Where can I pick that up? Play well, Jacob ---...--- -- E-mail: sparre@cats.nbi.dk -- -- Web...: <URL:(URL) -- ---...--- (25 years ago, 2-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.geek, lugnet.cad, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: New Group Idea
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(...) Alright then, I'll submit my planned .DAT files of Byggis door and windows and my Tyco phone to lugnet.dat.cad.parts. B-) /Tore (25 years ago, 2-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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What if say a complient file contains anything starting with "0 CW". Any program dealing with this information could just scan for "0 CW*". We also could use a tag "0 AW*" if why ever the orientation is not clock-wice but anti-clockwice .... I think (...) (25 years ago, 2-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: New Group Idea
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(...) Ditto. -Tim <>< (URL) timcourtne ICQ: 23951114 How to rob a bank in ancient Rome: "Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam." (I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous (...) (25 years ago, 2-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: New Group Idea
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(...) Evil. --Todd (25 years ago, 2-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: MI/X (Was: LeoCAD for Linux (Was: Compiling MPD Builder/Splitter for DOS/Win?))
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(...) I have used the product under NT. It isn't very stable. But it works. The problem is that your apps are looking for fonts that you haven't installed into the X server on the Mac. There is a faq for MI/X on their site, which includes a (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.off-topic.geek, lugnet.cad, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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(...) Because the program doesn't work that way, it just turns backface culling on and draws everything in green, then switch to "frontface culling" (does it exist ?) and draws everything red. I've been busy finishing my first game project (not Lego (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) I can't argue with that :) (...) No way ! The front faces are CCW in 3DS Max, and quoting the OpenGL 1.2 specs. for glFrontFace() "mode: Specifies the orientation of front-facing polygons. GL_CW and GL_CCW are accepted. The initial value is (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | MI/X (Was: LeoCAD for Linux (Was: Compiling MPD Builder/Splitter for DOS/Win?))
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[ XFUT lugnet.off-topic.geek ] Mike Stanley: (...) Didn't work. There is some kind of font problems that don't make sense. (...) I am not a Mac person either. - And I would like to stay that way (but still get the d*** thing to work). No plain and (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad, lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.off-topic.geek)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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[ I got a bit too much good French red wine, so maybe I shouldn't try to answer now, but ... ] Steve: (...) Right. (...) Shouldn't all elements of transparent parts be drawn? (...) Yes. (I start to suspect that wine has a good influence on my (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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(...) why can't you simply mod your proggy to handle the conversion automatically?? i mean.. if your proggy is smart enough to detect uninified normals and then allows the user to press a key to mod the CW/CCW property of the face, why can't you (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LeoCAD for Linux (Was: Compiling MPD Builder/Splitter for DOS/Win?)
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(...) Tried this? (URL) not a Mac person at all and I got it to work in just a couple of minutes, so it might work for you. (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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Leonardo Zide wrote in message <37F4ECA7.C0BFCF7D@c...com.br>... (...) I'd vote for CW for two reasons: 1) 'Clockwise' is shorter than 'counterclockwise'. 2) CW is used more often than CCW in rendering applications (to my knowledge) because the (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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(...) That would be nice, but it's unrealistic. (...) No, they shouldn't. Just because the part XYZ is CW, a program can't assume that the primitive ABC is also CW. (...) I like this. I don't like it for use on primitives, but DOUBLE-SIDED could (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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Gary Williams wrote in message ... (...) *a lightbulb appears above my head* Nevermind, I understand now. For some reason I was imagining inverting all three axes, but now I realize only two would need to be inverted, before the part is rotated 180 (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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Steve: (...) Because our clever rendering programs will notice that the first transformation matrix has negative determinant, and therefore will swap the CW and CCW checks. Play well, Jacob ---...--- -- E-mail: sparre@cats.nbi.dk -- -- Web...: (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LeoCAD for Linux (Was: Compiling MPD Builder/Splitter for DOS/Win?)
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Leonardo: (...) I do have X installed _on_my_Linux_machine_, but I haven't managed to get the Macs here in Paris to run a X server (yet). Play well, Jacob ---...--- -- E-mail: sparre@cats.nbi.dk -- -- Web...: <URL:(URL) -- ---...--- (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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(...) Why not simply: (...) Assuming the primitives are all defined so their faces are turned outward. I would see allowing both CW and CCW as a convenience for parts authors. There's no real difference between one way and the other. CW has a slight (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LeoCAD for Linux (Was: Compiling MPD Builder/Splitter for DOS/Win?)
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(...) I'll add that to my page. I don't know (almost) anything about writing linux applications, so I don't know which options to use when compiling. (...) The MS Windows version works correctly (without creating a window) but the Linux version (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) I guess we could at least decide to use CCW to determine the normal of a face, unless there's someone who prefers to use CW ? Leonardo (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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(...) If we know that a face is CW, why not change it to CCW ? The most difficult task is to discover the orientation of a face, but once we have that information anyone can change the order of the points and fix the face. (...) This can be done (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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Lars C. Hassing wrote in message <938787015.279086@ns.cci.dk>... (...) of (...) we will (...) Hold on. Why not just have a button in the CAD program to turn the part inside-out by automatically manipulating the orientation matrix in the parent dat (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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Steve Bliss wrote in message <37f4ab7d.64002272@l...et.com>... (...) Doh'! You're right. (...) I'm having a difficult time picturing in my mind how an asymmetrical part can have its orientation matrix in the parent dat file mirrored and rotated (to (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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Jacob Sparre Andersen <sparre@sys-323.risoe.dk> wrote in message news:FIxHC0.E2v@lugnet.com... (...) I'm not so sure about this anymore. I think the ideal would be a program that could change the part files so that they are completely CCW. Using (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB) [DAT]
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Lars: (...) [...] (...) This would demand a lot of work before people could start using programs that use this fact. (...) Right. (...) Just check the determinant of the rotation matrix (but you know that I suppose). (...) I would rather use some (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB) [DAT]
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Leonardo Zide wrote in message <37F383E1.CA6B8962@c...com.br>... (...) I agree with John Van in that we need three keywords: CCW, CW, UNKNOWN. As the rendering program is going to keep track of the number of mirrorings of the transformations (or (...) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: CW/CCW, vertex sequence, co-planar, convex, (115kB)
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(...) It wouldn't matter if they were closed-volume or not--they could still be turned inside out accidently. And an inside-out closed-volume primitive wouldn't do anybody any good. (...) Why? Steve (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Hidden surface removal, and vertex order in part/primitive DAT files
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(...) I'm willing to change my parts, if the standard changes. Assuming parts which are *not* C(C)W need to be flagged at all. (...) I agree completely. Steve (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | New Group Idea
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We should have a lugnet.cad.dat.clones group, now that someone over on RTL is doing megablocks parts. bThe group would be expressly for posting clone lego parts, official sets and MOC's. -- Jonathan Wilson wilsonj@xoommail.com (URL) (25 years ago, 1-Oct-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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