Subject:
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Re: Here's one of the many things I don't understand...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sat, 1 Feb 2003 01:17:46 GMT
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Viewed:
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433 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Pedro Silva writes:
>
> > Both, but only the first is really important (for the second I prefer
> > cunning diplomacy).
> > The difficulty in the defense of Europe against any military threat has to
> > do with the almost impossibility of establishing standards for a unified
> > army. Two come are obvious: WHO decides what to do, and WHICH language do we
> > speak as a standard? Both can be solved *in time*, when everyone is prepared
> > to drop nationalist feelings (outside of sports arenas :-)
>
> Esperanto: that will simply annoy everyone. French: the french ears will be
> offended by the corruption of their language! English: it would drive
> everyone nuts trying to figure out whether they should say Lew-ten-ant or
> Left-ten-ant, Kernal or Collinoll.
Not to mention it would be a nightmare in terms of crypting; everyone
already speaks English anyway :-D
> German: ever hear impossible germanic
> polysyllabic compound words? I still have nightmares about "Battle Turn
> Away" in German (Lindsay will support me on this one, I bet).
Actually, I'm learning German. It's not even half as hard as I had thought!
(ok, so it takes *time* to learn... ;-)
> Spanish:
> maybe, as long as you don't have to lisp because some ancient Spanish king
> had a speech impediment (ooooo, are you gonna correct me so fast on this
> one...).
Nope. If there is a difference between my own language and Spanish, that's
the one: no kings with speech impediments :-D
> Italian: why not jetison the vulgaris and go straight to the
> source...Latin: on second thought, too catholic.
Worse, too Scientific. The names for the arms would become a bit like plant
names: "Antitanquus autopropulsiunata canonus CLV milimetrus"... or worse,
"Helicopterus transportus armatus missili et canonii rotativi XXX milimetrus
et extremitatis Uranium in projectilii". Just go on adding names to cover
all distinct features :-D
> Greek: it's greek to me,
> never mind. Russian: at least they have a phonetic alphabet but who wants
> to talk like they are gargling rocks? Irish Gaelic: awright! My choice....
>
> Okay, I think I see the problem. :-)
That is likely to be the greatest challenge to the EU in the 21st century,
the quest for the common language. Even if consensus is reached, then we're
left with the logistical problem of teaching 450 million people that speech
- a nightmare from all angles.
> > Mind you, I'm not saying European States can't fight; I'm not even saying
> > they can't win a defensive war; all I'm saying is that there would be a
> > tremendous inneficience in doing so without the American assistance. The
> > paradox is that the only nation who can force Europeans to have a single
> > Army is not even European... :-P
>
> That they are not thinking offensively is probably a good thing - look at
> the temptations America has with the world's last big fleet.
And the funny thing is, it is not necessary to its full extent. The Brits
got back the Falklands using a carrier due to be scrapped and outdated
Vulcans to refuel two dozen Harriers!
In the end, it's how the resources are employed that matters; much can be
done with little.
> > > I mean the whole of the 20th century. The United States was dragged into
> > > two massive and terrible land wars in Europe in the preceeding century. The
> > > best way to avoid things getting out of hand again is to take an active part
> > > in the process.
> >
> > That argument has little value from the day the Iron Curtain fell. There are
> > no longer conflicting blocks of interest in Europe!
> > Or am I the only one failing to see where two European countries can find a
> > reason to war?
>
> It has less value, primarily because it was applied in the first place (a
> victim of it's own success). Everything is going along great for the
> moment, but just wait until those British Soccer Hooligans start another of
> their chevauchees. :-)
Not even that is a problem anymore: the British authorities have tacitly
granted continental polices the permission to act "firmly" against British
hooligans. And yes, that's a euphemism - the Slovaks took it to the last
consequences not long ago.
As a sidenote (and I have some first hand experience with this), the
hooligans would not behave like they do IF they knew wine in the continent
is frequently *twice* as alcoholic as the beer they drink in their island... :-P
> > > > > and for our own sakes, its best we keep an
> > > > > eye on things (though Europeans have been doing better of late, with the
> > > > > exception of the Balkans which seems to be trying to live up to its billing
> > > > > as the powderkeg of Europe).
> > > >
> > > > Yup, those countries will take a lot of effort to "get along". Anyway, who
> > > > said European Unity was a piece of cake? :-/
> > >
> > > Alas, it never is, Europe or anywhere else.
> >
> > It never *was*, you mean. It's the first time a Union is being achieved
> > without costly wars - there is no term of comparison in History.
>
> Make up your mind: it's a piece of cake or it isn't. :-)
It's not a piece of cake; that's why it is "being achieved" and has not
"happened" yet :-)
> People everywhere should be suspicious of anyone telling them they need to
> die for their country/cause/pogrom/divine rights of kings/etc.
Like Dave K. said in another post, WW2 was (or turned out to be) a struggle
for the sake of Justice (I'd risk using the word Humanity). I would not have
a problem fighting such a war - my pacifism ends in sight of utter madness.
> > > > The whole thing just stinks of vendetta this side of the Atlantic...
> > >
> > > On both sides of the Atlantic.
> >
> > Yeah, I had forgotten Brazil ;-)
>
>
> Yeah, but more of them didn't vote against Bush than did. That happened
> here. :-)
Perhaps massive ressetlements of Democrat voters throughout the States (1)
could force a change for the next election - there's still time! :-P
Pedro
(1) - ya know, moving from Democrat strongholds to marginally Republican
areas; it should be enough to level things up in the Electoral College. So,
in more than one way, "you can make a difference" :-)
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