Subject:
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Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:13:30 GMT
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Viewed:
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1374 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Eaton wrote:
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My own thought on it is that there’s no such thing as “first”.
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Really? Upon what do you base that observation? Because based on all of my
observations, everything known has a beginning and an end (except the
existence of the universe).
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It’s primarily based on what I know about time considering its relation to
energy, and how time is actually unconstant. Also, a sneaking suspicion that
time is “curved” just like everything else. Similar to how we once thought the
Earth was flat, we found out it curved back around on itself. Similar to how
I’ve heard that space itself is curved back on itself. Effectively, it seems
that each dimension out is curved with respect to a dimension beyond itself.
Hence, area is curved w/rt space, space is curved w/rt time, and time is curved
w/rt the 5th dimension.
For whatever reason, the universe loves curvy stuff, and generally doesn’t
contain linear stuff. Look at atoms, and you get this picture of small things
orbiting a large thing. Blow it up, and you get the same picture-- small moons
orbiting a planet. Again, and you get planets orbiting a sun. Again, and you get
suns orbiting a galactic core.
Newtonian theories about space, time, temperature, speed, etc. all prove to be
wrong once you get outside of “typical” human experiences. Nothing goes faster
than light, there’s an absolute 0 temperature, space depends on the mass and
engergy contained within it, etc.
Proof? Nope, got none. Just some sort of hunch that that’s how it works. An
unscientific belief, mostly what I’d agree to call “faith”. Just-- a small
supply of it, since I’d yield that theory pretty easily if shown otherwise. In
fact, I think they recently gave some disproof to the “Pearl necklace theory”,
which is kinda similar to my own thoughts-- I just never looked into it more to
see if it invalidated my theory or whether it’s unrelated.
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Again, that is my point. Science is illegitimately (and hypocritically)
taking leaps of faith.
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I dunno if I’d say that-- that is, I don’t think science is actually making
those claims. There’s theories about the Big Bang that’re pretty well founded
from what I understand, but I don’t think I’ve heard of anything that I would
call “claimed” by science about the pre-Big-Bang state of the universe. There’s
theories, to be sure, and to believe them does require faith. But the level of
faith we’re talking about is (or should be) pretty minimal.
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Asked which Commandment was the greatest, Jesus replied, “You shall love the
Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your
mind. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. All
the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commandments.”
Love of God is inexorabley intertwined with regard for one’s neighbor.
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Yep-- I have to agree. As a further aside, I always liked that “love thy
neighbor as thyself” or however the quote goes. I’ve heard it said as “love thy
neighbor as thy brother”, which, I think is less of a correct moral. Typically,
I think it’s meant to imply that you should love other people more. That is,
instead of being selfish, you should care more about other people.
However, I found that in a few cases (myself primarily, but a couple others), it
can be taken to mean the opposite-- love yourself more, as much as you love
other people. I often yielded to other people’s desires at the drop of a hat,
which later on I started realizing isn’t healthy. I eventually decided that the
“ultimate” morality was one where everyone’s desires were weighed equally--
whether they were your own or not was irrelevant.
Nietzche was particularly concerned about that, as I found out in late college--
although he was more of a jerk on the subject, IIRC. I think he took
Christianity to its extreme and concluded that it was unhealthy (actually, I
think he kept saying “unnatural”). Essentially, the Christian moral of “love
other people more” eventually boiled down to: “I’ll endure enternal torment and
suffering (or die) to get you a ham sandwich that’s SLIGHTLY fresher than the
one you’ve got.”
DaveE
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