Debate : 26754


Off-Topic / Debate / 26754	26753 \| 26755

Subject:	Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
Newsgroups:	lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date:	Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:11:23 GMT
Viewed:	1509 times

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:

<snip>

Not so fast! “Outside” is a dangerously tricky word in this context, since all bets are off as soon as we exit the natural universe (ie., we have no basis for making any one claim over any other regarding things “outside” the universe). Something *may* exist independent of the universe, but we can’t possibly have any reasonable access to it. Even “intuitions” or “gut feelings” or “writings on my heart” aren’t sufficient, when you get right down to it.

And this may be the crux of my problem with Science. Science categorically denies the existence of anything it cannot investigate. It requires proof, something that is categorically impossible to obtain outside the natural universe. So, in essence, a god or gods cannot exist because they cannot be proved to exist, which I find to be conveniently circular.

The fact is that even if God appeared at the United Nations general assembly, there would be people who wouldn’t be able to accept it, because Science cannot handle such a concept. But my original point (God = Event1) still stands: Science cannot handle a concept of God, but it hypocritically accepts the concept of the existence of all things without probing as to their origins. The best proof of the existence of God is the simple existence of stuff. Rationally, it had to come from somewhere (according to Science).

Even if I accept the idea that stuff just always WAS, it is still equivalent to saying that a Creator just always WAS (God = Perpetual Stuff).

In my final analysis, it boils down to a discussion of semantics. But I think that Scientists want their cake and eat it, too, by refusing to even consider pre-Big Band era music (Therein one finds, among others, the music of a Mozart:-)

JOHN

Message has 2 Replies:

		Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
(...) I'm not comfortable with the capital "S," by the way, but I suppose that's a stylistic choice rather than a deification of "Science." But I digress... I think that that's a mischaracterization, though. Regarding something that it can't (...) (20 years ago, 11-Apr-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

		Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
(...) "Where one cannot speak, there one must be silent." Here, we are confusing the scientific attitude with the attitude of scientists. Science doesn't take a stand on God, since the very idea, as you point out, is beyond the scope of science. (...) (20 years ago, 11-Apr-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Message is in Reply To:

		Re: We're being attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of culture!
(...) First of all, let's address this "Big Band" issue. I don't have much fondness for Lawrence Welk, but I guess Glenn Miller's okay. And Guy Lombardo? Don't get me started... (...) Not so fast! "Outside" is a dangerously tricky word in this (...) (20 years ago, 11-Apr-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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