Subject:
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Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 22 Jun 2001 19:03:16 GMT
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Viewed:
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695 times
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Christopher Weeks wrote:
> > I would say "no TV for the day" or something of the sort;
>
> No TV for the day is an absolutely fabulous consequence for breaking the TV.
> What it has got to do with mouthing off, I have no idea.
I do agree that as much as possible the "punishment" (consequences)
should be related to the "crime". The consequences for mouthing off
could result in no TV for the day if the consequence is actually "since
you refuse to be civil today, you are not welcome in the family room
today, the family room is where we come together as a family and respect
each other and enjoy each other's company." Depending on what you
believe the cause for the mouthing off is, though, the parent might say,
"however, if you would like to talk with me about what is troubling you,
I'll be happy to come sit on your bed with you and we can work it out"
(and of course when the kid takes the parent up on that offer, and is
able to explain their issue and appologize for mouthing off, you might
very well at that point invite the child back into the family room
[incidentally, I'm in favor of this type of thing for criminal
punishment also - if you can demonstrate to me that you acknowledge the
wrongness of your action, and demonstrate that you will take steps both
the compensate the victim and also show that you are ready to be a
responsible citizen again, then I'm happy to put you back on the street.
I will insist on a probationary period of course, but why lock people up
who are ready to be citizens again? Note that if your crime was murder,
and this isn't the first time, you're going to have to do a lot more to
convince me than if your crime was that you had one too many beers on
your 21st birthday and ran off the road and destroyed a tree and your
car and killed your buddy.]).
> > and in
> > very extreme cases, I would even smack them (not too hard, not enough to
> > leave an impression on the behind, but enough to leave an impression on the
> > mind).
>
> What do you consider very extreme? I'm certainly willing to defend myself, but
> I can't think of any but the most improbably extreme cases where some kind of
> physical discipline is justified.
I'm not convinced there aren't times when a smack is necessary to get
the attention of the offender. If the offender isn't listening to words,
what do you do? (and here I'm considering a range of things, the kid who
keeps running into the road, the jerk who is making passes at the
secretary at work [and won't stop], or the teenager who is dissing
everything the parent says).
> > As a kid I received the smack, once in a long time. I was slapped on
> > the cheek *once*, when I hit my mother at the age of 12, and believe me, it
> > only hurt for a little bit, but it left a very strong don't-cross-that-line
> > impression.
>
> What it taught you is that if you strike someone you are likely to be whacked
> back (I consider that a good and just repercussion) and that the person in the
> world who is supposed to love and care for you above all else is willing to
> hurt you in order to force your compliance with their own agenda (I consider
> that bad).
>
> > Now I think my mother was extremely justified, even though at
> > the time I was really upset.
>
> I think there are negative consequences to physical discipline even when it is
> justified. I agree that that case may have been justified, but possibly not
> the _best_ solution.
Hmm, interesting question. On the one hand, I can see your point. On the
other, the rest of the world has no parental obligation to you, and
perhaps this is a lesson BEST learned from one's parents (who, if they
are good, will make it clear that the slap was a consequence of the
hitting, and does not imply that the parent hates the child or other
such negative consequence - a good discussion with the child that when
people are hit, they may hit back, but they won't give you a hug
afterwards is a something worth learning, and I wonder if it can really
be learned without actually experiencing it [now hopefully the child
will learn to extend this to more extreme violence without having to
learn about that the hard way]).
There certainly is a lot to parenting. One vivid memory I have is one
New Years when I agreed to babysit my nephew. My sister, mother, nephew,
and I went into Boston's First Night and then I took my nephew home.
When we got home (or perhaps it was on the subway), I told him he could
sleep on the couch with me. After a little playtime, I put him into his
bedroom (having forgot about what I had said earlier). After an hour or
so of wailing, I finally remembered that I had made the offer (I think
he may have reminded me when I talked to him). Once I made room for him
on the couch, he went right to sleep until his mother came home. I
forget how old he was at the time, I think three or so. It sure is
interesting seeing how bright kids really are. While I'm sure it was
somewhat of a reflection of his mother, he has made his own choices
about associating with his father (and a very strong point that
consequences can flow both ways - I bet it's a LOT more effective for
him to tell his father he doesn't want to visit than for his mother to
tell the father the visit is off because the father is drunk).
--
Frank Filz
-----------------------------
Work: mailto:ffilz@us.ibm.com (business only please)
Home: mailto:ffilz@mindspring.com
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