Subject:
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Re: BrickWorld 2007 - who's getting paid?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.events.brickworld
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Date:
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Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:32:17 GMT
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Viewed:
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7306 times
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Bryan,
Thank you for your post and informing the community of the intentions of your
organization of BrickWorld 07. I have interspersed some comments among your
points. Please read them carefully and in a positive frame of mind. They are not
intended as negative or hurtful but as constructive comments.
In lugnet.events.brickworld, Bryan Bonahoom wrote:
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Community -
We at Brickworld do not like the concept of this discussion so we have
remained quiet pulicly. We responded privately to Mr. Nelson because he, and
he alone, seemed to be asking a question. Nr. Nelson has chosen to take part
of our private reponse and post it to a public forum.
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I appreciate your dislike for the concept of this discussion. I understand it.
In a free society though we cannot always keep the conversation on the topic of
our choice. I submit it is that very fact that makes us a better nation than
most. I am sorry that you felt it necessary to respond privately to a public
question. I support your right to do so, just as I support Marc’s right to share
your private communication with him in resonse to what has been said and
conjectured here.
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His misstatements above indicate clearly that he does NOT understand how
busniesses work. I would like to add a few general FACTS:
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That’s a little harsh, I believe. I do not know Marc well, I wish I did. My few
interactions with him have led me to believe he is someone I would be friends
with. He is funny and alright in general. For all you or I know, he could be a
distinguished professor of business law well respected in his field. But, I
respect your opinion, I assume your knowledge of Marc is as small as mine, and
your right to make a judgement statement based on the information you have.
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1) Just because an organization is NOT FOR PROFIT (NPO), doesn’t mean that
the owners/organizers aren’t *profiting*. All it means is that the business
entity doesn’t pay dividends to the owner(s). The owners could still be
employed by the business and paid a regular salary or a bonus.
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Ah yes, the fundamental understanding of the term profit. Well, I am not a
business major, but here is what I know from experience and searching the
Internet (at reputable web sites). A non-profit may run a profit. That profit is
restricted to a percentage of the income. When this percentage is exceeded,
consistently, then the IRS takes most if not all of the profit.
Yes, there are employees and there are payments made. Boards govern NPO’s and
there are liable and criminally held accountable for the profits. That doesn’t
guarantee that money doesn’t go missing or is mis-appropriated. It happens all
the time. That’s why there are criminal and civil penalties for such actions.
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2) Just because an organization is FOR PROFIT doesn’t mean they are making
any money at all - either pay or dividends.
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Yes, you are correct! Many businesses fail in their first year because they fail
to account for the many places where income must be spent. The fundamental
difference between NPO’s and for profit businesses though is that the money can
go directly to the owners after all debts are paid. The owners are also liable
for any civil and criminal actions taken by their company, and unless they are
an LLC, then their private property can be leined upon to pay for civil and
criminal penalties.
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3) Setting up and managing an NPO requires significantly more money be paid
to the government, to attorneys and to accountants. A large purpose of
forming an LLC (Limited Liability Corporation) is just that. To limit the
personal liability of the owners in case there is a major issue or lawsuit
filed.
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You are absolutely correct. Hopefully, the BrickWorld 07 proceeds will bring in
the money you need to establish an LLC. This will help protect the “owners” from
having their homes and cars and children’s education fund from being taken away
from them when a civil or criminal penalty is assessed.
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4) David Gregory’s statement was not incorrect - or we would have corrected
it at the time it was posted.
5) Organizers of large AFOL events do it for the love of the brick, not the
money. I make a lot of money with my day job and don’t need to profit from
this. I wanted to give back to the community. This is the attitude of ALL
the Brickworld Team. I am excited that the vast majority of the posts from
the community have defended the event and tried to focus the energy on the
event.
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I am glad you are part of the AFOL community and hope you both hit a home run
with your first organized event. I will be in attendance and cannot wait.
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We have no intent to engage this thread further and we hope that the rest of
you will put your passion for either attacking or defending “the cause” aside
and simply let this die. I just wanted to set the facts straight.
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Thanks for doing so, but I am sad you do not feel, in light of your statement
above, to keep the community knowlegable about your intentions.
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As I told Mr. Nelson in the private email - continuing these threads only
upsets people. And, this is not the purpose of having a forum on Lugnet. I
feel badly that he was compelled to try and quote our private email publicly
and hope that he considers this pain before he does it to anyone else in the
future.
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I am sorry if Marc caused either of you pain. I really wish you had left this
last statement off your post. First, the surest way to guarantee that something
continues is to try to ban it. Everytime a group speaks out about a movie or a
music album sales, which were flat or not moving in either direction, take off
almost guaranteeing record sales. Also, if we didn’t post things that might
upset people then there would be very little said in LUGNET. (You must have
missed that whole new grey - old grey thing).
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We hope to see you all at Brickworld. It will be a wonderful event!!!
Best Regards, Bryan
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Certainly, you are close to the BrickWorld event. Heck, your organizing it. So
maybe it is a little hard to take a step back and look at the question Marc
posed from another’s perspective.
You might not be aware of a past event, who’s name will remain nameless, that
left several of the AFOL’s without payment for services rendered. It also left
the for profit businesses involved, the hotel and convention center, without
payment for the services rendered there. This left a black mark on the community
and has resulted in no events being held there since.
I trust you both not to repeat that sequence of events that might jeopardize the
ability of AFOLs in the future to continue enjoy these fan conventions. The fact
that this happened is not indicative of the people I know and meet in this
community. However, we all, as a community, have an interest in it never
happening again. I hope you appreciate this history as you read continued posts
on this topic for your events and other events in the future.
I prefer to know whether the event is NPO, private, LLC, etc. I set my
expectations accordingly. I have no problems with organizers and those signing
contracts to reap the rewards of the hard work, long hours, and constant second
guessing of the decisions you will make. I simply want to be given the
information to make an informed decision.
Sincerely and Respectfully,
Todd
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: BrickWorld 2007 - who's getting paid?
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| (...) Community - We at Brickworld do not like the concept of this discussion so we have remained quiet pulicly. We responded privately to Mr. Nelson because he, and he alone, seemed to be asking a question. Nr. Nelson has chosen to take part of our (...) (17 years ago, 15-Mar-07, to lugnet.events.brickworld, FTX)
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