 | | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) I've been avoiding weighing in on this issue but.. How about a double hyphen, '--' -Orion (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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In lugnet.cad.dev, Steve Bliss writes: <snip> (...) <snip> (...) The point of setting an 'LDraw.org Compatible' format would be to set the framework of LDraw files, not to restrict what can be in LDraw files. If a programmer wants to implement thier (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) Do we really need to put the revision number next to every line? I find that astheically annoying. The way we do it in Nuke land is put a heavy black line in the margin next to all the lines that changed from the last revision. -Orion (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) I was trying to refrain from posting too many messages on issues that had already been cleared up. Besides, I'm trying to collect my thoughts on the SB for a single post. Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Not really. The important thing with the parts library is that files are accepted and added the distribution file. We don't even have a '0 Official' any more - now it's '0 LDRAW_ORG'. I was envisioning the 'LDraw.org Compatible' program to be (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) I agree. (...) What's wrong with -? Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) I think that's all right. (...) Hey, it looked like so much fun ... I don't think you were around for the old days. I might not have replied to every message in .cad, but it was close to that. Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) I think it could, in models and unofficial stuff. But I don't think it would be useful in the official parts library. Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: The DOS apps (was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) Make sure you've installed LDRAW027.EXE -- that should resolve the runtime 200 problem. Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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But, isn't that more-or-less exactly what happens with the parts library? (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) So we (well, the SB eventually) decide on one way, stick to it, and implement it in programs. We can put a request in to Michael Lachmann to change the insertion of "WRITE" (which is an improper use of a meta-command) with "//" so future (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) Good point. Thanks for nit-correcting, I think the intent is there on my part but semantics can play a role in whether or not people like/dislike an idea. (...) You're right on that part. That's why it would be a good thing to encourage (not (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) They might be comfortable with any number of conventions, but I guarantee they will forget sometimes if you try to require them to change the way they enter comments. --Travis Cobbs (tcobbs@REMOVE.halibut.com) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) OK, I'll start working on it. It might take a few days. Before I start, though I'd like to suggest resetting all line-version tags in the current version to 1, and then making my new changes as version 2. Given how long it's been since the (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) I hadn't thought about NOCLIP. (...) I think that FORCE would be more useful if it overrode NOCERTIFY, but not NOCLIP. When you say NOCERTIFY, you're saying you don't know how the file should be culled. When you say NOCLIP, you're saying you (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) Has a hyphen been used anywhere for a similar purpose? I'm not aware of it. I'm one of the least-techy of the bunch, though I can hack some code, and I think it's better to stick to what most know, as long as it's not cumbersome like {}. I (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) you mean $puctuation++ > ! $puctuation ? $goodness++ : $goodness-- ; ? (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.off-topic.geek)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) Right. Elsewhere in the thread you'll see I tested it in LEdit and it crashed -- that was soon ruled out of the discussion, at least for now :-) (...) Nit: That's a bit too much for my tastes. What's wrong with //? -Tim (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Very good point. In my conversations with a few semi-outsiders to the LDraw community, they believed systems could (or should, I see your [1] and rase you that) be established to encourage participation and compliance, but could not/should not (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) ROFL!!! :-) -Tim PS - Steve, while you posted quite a bit all at once, this isn't quite the "shock and awe" I was expecting. ;-) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) I believe Lar mad the case that the SB can/should include people from all camps. I for the most part agree, because we need perspectives from the various types of people who create [elements of] and use this system. -Tim (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Charter Org for LDraw.org (was: Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility))
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(...) Cool. I put 'nonprofit' in to emphasize the nature of the organization. While I've taken a cursory look at information on "nonprofit corporations," I'm not totally aware of alternatives. Obviously, we want to travel down the route that creates (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) ... and no. IMO, if the meta statement isn't listed in the current file format document, it's open to change. The meta-commands on that document (pulling from memory): STEP, PRINT, WRITE, SAVE (?!), (I gave up, dug out the code) PAUSE, CLEAR, (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) can snag a copy of that. Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Right. But newer OS's and video cards are becoming less compatible with DOS programs, especially DOS programs that do graphics. I used to be able to run LDraw with Super-VGA resolutions (with Win95, I think). I haven't been able to that in (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) Hmm. To tell you the truth, I don't remember. My main use for it is to make sure patterns are rendered on the backside of transparent solids. I will *allow* that NOCLIP/CLIP can be used to allow non-compliant sections of code, but I don't feel (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) Absolutely. :) The spec was never ratified or 'officially' accepted as a standard. Parts of it are have definitely evolved as the defacto standard, but that's not the same as having a good, documented standard to follow. I think the spec can (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) I could kind of see that, but not in the parts library. I would expect that any file in the library that specifies NOCLIP does it for a good reason, and should not be overrode (overridden?). What I could maybe see in the parts library is a (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) During the rendering process, it is necessary to keep track of both the 'accumulated clip-state' and the 'local clip-state'. The accumulated clip-state is logically equivalent to boolean ANDing the local clip-states of all the parent files. As (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Charter Org for LDraw.org (was: Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility))
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In lugnet.cad.dev, Tim Courtney wrote: [snippity-do-dah] (...) Whoa there! There is a *huge* difference between a 'formal organization' and a 'formal nonprofit organization'. If you were using 'nonprofit' informally, please *don't*. 'nonprofit' (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) I agree. (...) Nit: we've already *got* an LDraw file format spec. Next item! (...) 'Control' is heavy-handed for my tastes. 'Support', 'endorse', 'coordinate' are all better. All a standards body could do is manage the documentation, and (...) (22 years ago, 21-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Dan, You program in *Perl*. Of course you think it's good to always have punctuation. You probably think more punctuation == better. ;) Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) True, but that's no reason to have (unnecessary) complications. The computer will understand whatever we set it up to understand. LIGHTVALS, {LIGHTVALS}, 32.6, it's all the same to the silicon. Syntax is for users, beginning or advanced. If we (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Depends on how open or closed the SB is. I think there's a place for part authors and users as well as developers. Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Tim, I've been reading this thread, and you keep mentioning this 'Steve' person. 'Steve this' and 'Steve that'. I must have gone through 100 messages by now, and no 'Steve' has shown up. I'm beginning to suspect you are imagining this 'Steve' (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) I really agree with Dan on this point. As I mentioned in another message, a standards body could certainly come up with suggestions for standard commands, but they wouldn't have any power of enforcement. About the only thing ldraw.org could[1] (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) Because it wouldn't be supported by LDraw and LEdit. Part files frequently include comments, so any standard option for commenting should be allowable in the parts library. (...) Some people already use COMMENT. Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) Rosco, Unfortunately, MLCAD's use of WRITE is a really bad example, because MLCAD is mis-using an already standard meta-command. Plus, 0 WRITE statements are not allowed in official parts, so any part authors who create their files in MLCAD (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) I support that (general) guideline. The only real difficulty is if the meta-command becomes generally accepted, and is 'promoted' to being an accepted standard. We'd either want a different prefix for org standards, or no prefix. Either way (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) I agree with Larry -- support it publically. Recognize '0 LTrax xxxx' as the primary syntax for the command. Especially, let the author of the original command know that you are implement their command. Hopefully, that will give them cause to (...) (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) Did you flag your changes? Basically, you should have changed the rev to 11 (and updated the modification date). And put an 11 on the left side of any lines you changed. Steve (22 years ago, 22-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | The DOS apps (was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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Lars Hassing wrote: > Ryan Farrington wrote: >>I have run into this problem with Windows XP, not so much with LEdit and >>LDraw--I use L3P more often. Thankfully, there is still a Win98 SE computer >>in the house! > > In Windows XP you can open a (...) (22 years ago, 20-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) (22 years ago, 20-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Standards Body Thoughts
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Hi Chris - (...) I agree that one of you should be involved on this committee/board. (...) I'm a fan of real-time chat or phone, and while I won't be participating as a member of the board, encourage the members to use such methods. (...) Ok. Steve (...) (22 years ago, 20-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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Thanks Dan, I created page (URL) that has my current list of known meta-commands for LDraw 0.27 as well as those that have been invented since. Kevin (...) (22 years ago, 20-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) In Windows XP you can open a command prompt by selecting All Programs/Accessories/Command Prompt, or by typing "cmd" in the Run... dialog. /Lars (22 years ago, 20-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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(...) There are currently a number of flags that indicate that a file is a part. The official one is only present in files that have been updated since it was made official. However, this isn't a problem, since any BFC-certified part is guaranteed (...) (22 years ago, 20-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Latest BFC Spec?
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I saved this thread for later reading, and I've got a few questions now. Sorry if I'm resurrecting something everyone thought was dead :D (...) Once the parts library is fully BFC certified, will there ever be a need to use CLIP or NOCLIP? I'm not (...) (22 years ago, 20-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) I like that. I think a clear indication that a comment is in fact a meta statement is needed. And I find "0 {META} " more distinct than (META), <META>, {BFC}, <BFC>, MODULENAME and whatever else has been suggested. But we're still stuck with (...) (22 years ago, 20-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) Dan (& Todd?) - I wonder if it would be possible to add an option (similar to skip filter settings) which would allow the web interface user the choice of displaying dots on the message page for threads over 100 or not. The default could be (...) (22 years ago, 19-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) just go here: (URL) you should see a "start this page" button. Then with a little bit of FTX (_really_ easy), you should be all set. FTX Guide: (URL) Dan Boger dan@peeron.com (22 years ago, 19-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) Hi Dan, I think that would be cool. Just let me know what to do. Kevin (22 years ago, 19-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) sure you can :) (URL) Here is the first draft of a list of meta-commands. It is pretty rough (...) wow, very cool. I think this would go great in an FTX page - we could have it linked from the CAD sidebar, and have it easily updated... what do (...) (22 years ago, 19-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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Hi All, Well, this topic has exceeded the 100 post mark! The bummer is that we can no longer see the tree view of the posts :^( Here is the first draft of a list of meta-commands. It is pretty rough format-wise, but at least it is a list. I'm still (...) (22 years ago, 19-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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(...) This is the approach that Michael Lachman on MLCAD. In an email, where he gave us permission to include his meta-command descriptions in our LDraw specification (yay!) he indicated that he has started to use MLCAD as his module name for all (...) (22 years ago, 19-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | DAT Curves Plugin For LDDesignPad Version 2.5.1
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(...) Ok. The rotation now centers on the Bounding Box center. Get it at: (URL) (22 years ago, 19-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: DAT Curves Plugin For LDDesignPad Version 2.5
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In lugnet.cad.dev, Travis Cobbs writes: <snip> (...) Actually I'm using a library I picked up trolling sourceforge for goodies. It's called GLScene and it does all the back end processing for me, all I have to do is declare and manipulate objects. I (...) (22 years ago, 18-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: DAT Curves Plugin For LDDesignPad Version 2.5
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(...) I'm working on that. I'm still learning the ropes with this GLScene library I'm using. (...) It's a debug button I forgot to remove. -Orion (22 years ago, 18-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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One approach to namespace management is to have format the commands like so: 0 MODULENAME COMMAND blah Authors would ask for a unique MODULENAME string to use, and prefix that in front of any "experimental" commands. For example, say I want to (...) (22 years ago, 18-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: DAT Curves Plugin For LDDesignPad Version 2.5
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(...) It worked fine for me. As mentioned in Philippe's reply (with different wording), it would be a lot easier of the rotation center were the center of the bounding box of the generated curved object. I did find the zoom, though. Is all your (...) (22 years ago, 18-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Calling all Meta-commands
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Several of the LDLite commands were documented in detail in the file WOOD4.DAT, so make sure you look there. (URL) formal definition of the (...) (22 years ago, 18-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: DAT Curves Plugin For LDDesignPad Version 2.5
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|
Hello Orion, The preview window works fine and fast here (Win2K, Athlon 1.2GHz). One suggestion: the rotation point of preview should be placed between start points, if the hose is too far away from origin it's difficult to get a meaningful preview. (...) (22 years ago, 18-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Understood. I think we need to focus on creating legitimacy for making decisions on standards before actually making decisions on standards. ;-) (...) That's a resonable request. Here's some thoughts -- I think the standards body will be (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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"Travis Cobbs" <tcobbs@REMOVE.halibut.com> skrev i meddelandet news:HBvHFv.1x9E@lugnet.com... (...) This is not at all uncommon in programming languages, take Pascal for example (UCSD-Pascal, Delphi): A comment can be (* any characters except the (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) That's fine also. I was only offering a possible way to avoid taking even more useful options away from the standards commitee. I don't think it would be too much to ask that new commands all be prefixed with 'UNOFF' or 'UNOFFICIAL'. It of (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) I wasn't too enthusiastic about conference calls when I first heard W3C talk about them. They kind of grew on me as I saw how effective they were. We could resolve in 5 minutes an issue that would otherwise take days of elapsed time and hours (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | SC Membership (was Re: LDraw Versioning)
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(...) [snip] (...) All: I'm open to the concept of being on the SC. My concern is that is that I am not either a heavy LDraw user or LDraw tool person. This is primarily because most of the LDraw tools only run on Windows and I only run Linux these (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) Cool. :-) -Tim (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) very very easy to set up. A list where membership is moderated (not anyone can sign up), only members can post, and has public html archives is very easy to do. (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) Definitely. I think it's important to draw from ILTCO's experience forming as well as Wayne's experience on the W3C. (...) Good idea. While I'm not going for a position on the SB myself, I can attest for the value of voice conversations over (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) There's a (mailman, I think) mailing list set up on LDraw.org which no one uses. We set it up to be used, but never made an effort to move discussion about organizaiton there, so we never used it. The intent was to allow anyone to join and (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) I don't have time to comment on all the rest yet, but ldraw is already set up for this - has been for a year, since we set it up for members@ldraw.org. Dan (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) I hear you. We may find that we need to move to phone to get more done faster but can start that way (...) Yep, me too. (...) If putting the function into ldraw.org itself isn't fast/easy, yes. Yahoo Groups, although disliked by some, are (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) I'm not so keen on actual phone use (all I have is a cell phone), but using AIM, MSN, ICQ etc... is propbably the best way. (...) Due to my work, it's would be easier for me if we did this during or after a lego event. It's easier for me to (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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GREAT input Wayne. (now, can we twist Wayne's arm to be on the SC?) Yes, we should learn from orgs but not adopt everything. The proper balance is key. What follows is some ILTCO organizing committee experience. On the topic of conference calls, (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) This problem is not due to the Swedish character set, but rather a problem with the Lugnet web interface. The Lugnet web interface does not support RFC2047 encoded header fields, that explains the problems with the subject line. I have (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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[snip] (...) Tim: For those who do not know, W3C stands for World Wide Web Consortium and it is the organization that is responsible for web standards such as HTTP, URL, HTML, XML, etc. Before I get into the details of how W3C operates, let me start (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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Ok...replying to myself here... (...) Also, Wayne, since we're on the topic of standards bodies, would you mind sharing with the community some of your thoughts about this, based on your past term(s) as Sun's representative to the W3C? Guys - (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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Ok, picking up where I left off with the previous post. (...) The group charged with working on this was Steve Bliss, Jacob Sparre Andersen, Terry Keller, Larry Pieniazek, and myself. There hasn't been much activity among the four of us as of late, (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) I think you picked a great spot to come in at. (...) Yep: format evolution = good. (...) Good idea. I'd also like to add that such a standards body should be relatively few in number. Not to be exclusionary, but to maintain focus. The number 7 (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) True. That's why I suggested a strong recommendation of using whatever comment prefix we will agree on. Then let's say the future L3P -check will raise a warning for omitting that prefix. /Tore (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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This thread has grown so much since Friday it's hard to know exactly where to interject.... so I just picked a spot. I'll have more to say later after reading the thread again but wanted to throw a few comments out. (...) YES! Exactly. And one could (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) As Steve would say - LDraw and LEdit exist as a benchmark. I would add - for the _original_ LDraw spec - that is, everything LDraw/LEdit can do. 1.0.0 spec, which is essentially what Kevin is working on - documenting all meta-commands up to (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) We already have a standard comment prefix: 0. For better or for worse, meta-commands are just comments that get interpreted to have meaning. I think it's unrealistic to expect users to remember to add a second comment prefix in addition to the (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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Orion Pobursky wrote: What are we going to do when DOS support in PC OS's goes away completely? I have run into this problem with Windows XP, not so much with LEdit and LDraw--I use L3P more often. Thankfully, there is still a Win98 SE computer in (...) (22 years ago, 15-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) Excellent suggestion, Wayne. (...) I like this - with one reservation. We should only focus on documenting 1.0.0 right now. Additions, which would go in a future version (1.1.0) are being openly discussed. Actual decisions on that version (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) I disagree. Let's stick with the current method of meta-commands until a standards body officially determines the syntax of future generation commands. No hold on anything, innovation can continue (just in the same disorganized fashion it (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) If tags were the way to go, I agree. BUT, ultimately I side with Kevin, just add comment marks, not meta-command ones. I think that option makes the most sense. But as Dan also said, I'm not a programmer who will be implementing this, so I (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) This is all the main idea behind my suggestion for a branch of the namespace to be considered 'open to all' without discussion. I originally suggested 0 APP appname COMMAND but now I wonder if 0 UNOFFICIAL appname COMMAND, or something (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Well this was one of the reasons behind my original suggestion. (This thread sure did take off while I was away skiing this weekend.) I suggested that a new meta command group be made today, albeit before the creation of a standards body, so (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Ah, I see the confusion. In saying //, what I really meant was "0 //", where // is the meta-command that means comment. Rather than place all new meta-commands in <>, or (), or {}, I'd rather have a token that means "the rest of this line is a (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) As I tried to indicate in one of my posts much earlier in this thread, I realized after my original post that the presense of the {} would negate the need for a {META} tag. It would probably work just as well with (). The whole reason I (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) All: There are gazillions of file formats out there and most of them have had to undergo some amount format evolution. Format evolution is a healthy and common situation. A common first step towards evolving a file format is to introduce a (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) What I mean is: (URL) for example. Quite corrupted and hard to read - even for us who understand Swedish. ;-) I don't know whether brackets will be cause the same kind of problems, but there is a risk. Then a line from a posted part or model (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) I don't know about American keyboards, but at my Swedish kb, '{' and '}' are at AltGr+7 and AltGr+0, and it collides with Swedish special characters in the ASCII table; it has to be set on codepage 850 or whatever it was. I find them somewhat (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) The exact same argment can be used in favor of dillineated comments. ;-) (...) Nope. Any program that does not recognize // (picking one as an example) simply ignores it. Just like (META). (...) I don't want to get sidetracked here, but (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) right. (...) but you just said you're doing that anyway - "if you do not recognize the first token in a line type 0 record, it is a comment". Is adding '{META}' to the list of recognizable tokens an issue? Also, you don't have to add it - if (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) I think we cannot ignore the backwards compatibility issue though. What we want is an explicit way to differentiate comments from meta-commands. I think defining an explicit mechanism for comments is completely backward compatible, because if (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw file spec
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Cool! More thoughts later, I'm off for the afternoon. -Tim (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | LDraw file spec
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In light of recent discussion, I'm working on a consolidated file spec. Basically my aim is to combined the original spec with the 'Official' additions and mention the other additions and where to find definitions. The 'Official' group: The original (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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