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It seems to me that certain recurring flamefests could be prevented, or at least reduced in scope, if you could prohibit certain users from replying to certain other users (and vice-versa).... (22 years ago, 10-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) wouldn't that just cause a proliferation (sp) of new threads, and make the problem worse, since you wouldn't know which threads have no useful content? There's all sorts of technical solutions we can try, but as long as people want to argue, (...) (22 years ago, 10-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) I don't think that you could really keep that in control. If I had some problem with you, and started publicly insulting you, I'd expect that you may want to defend yourself. If you couldn't you could just start your own thread to get back at (...) (22 years ago, 10-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) I think this would be helpful, but... (...) You're right, what really needs to happen is there needs to be less tolerance (and zero tolerance for some people) for responses which start these flame wars. I think the boobie prize goes to the (...) (22 years ago, 10-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) That's not a bad idea, and I appreciate all suggestions, but I don't think it's really in LUGNET's 'style'. It seems a bit too personalized and restrictive for us. There's too much potential for it to cut off good conversation, be confusing on (...) (22 years ago, 10-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) I think that sounds good. I don't think you'll miss anything significant since what is a concern is things which start to brew out of control, and those get noticed (and if you have a semi-formal policy, you'll get helpful e-mails if you (...) (22 years ago, 10-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) In other words, Suz don't worry, we'll come tell you Mommy. ;) All joking aside, this is the real reason I'm replying... (...) I hate to "me too," post, but Frank, you said it so well and I feel the need to show agreement. I think we generally (...) (22 years ago, 11-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) I should specify that when I said "time out" I mean shutting off their posting privelages temporarily. Also, I'm careful to use the word 'bickering' over 'arguing' because arguments can be constructive and provide a variety of views on an (...) (22 years ago, 11-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) That's what I understood. Looking at the bickering which seems to be going on in .space about castle vs space, I've got some thoughts... While I think I agree with your point in general about timing out all participants, I think it would be (...) (22 years ago, 12-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) Eh? You can't really think that particular dispute is a serious problem can you, Frank? The issue seems pretty much resolved even as I type -- it very quickly transferred over to off-topic as several content-less posts, all apparently in good (...) (22 years ago, 12-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) It looked like something that if it continued in the tone I was seeing (which I wouldn't qualify as "banter"), that it was getting close to something which needs action. I'm not sure where the line is, but I think I'd like to see the line (...) (22 years ago, 13-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) I think what you're saying is that you don't want me to expect everyone to just "be quiet and take it" if they feel offended. If that's what you're expressing concern over, I can understand and it's a good point. But I'd tell you not to worry (...) (22 years ago, 13-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) If you want my buyin on this as a just policy(1) you are going to have to explain that. ANY time he sighs he's doing it to start a bicker. Plain and simple. 1 - not that my buyin is needed, of course (22 years ago, 13-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) Explanations are definitely good. I'm pretty sure back when Todd had to regularly forcibly remind people about where auction posts were appropriate that he always made a public statement (though I think he could have been slightly less terse, (...) (22 years ago, 13-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) I already expect that such a policy would seem unfair sometimes. (...) I stated my personal reaction. (I did not declare it 'right' or 'wrong') (...) Then you should have known better than to go for the bait. -Suz (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) Note quite. I use a sigh to register my general disappointment, without supplying material to prolong an argument. I have already explained this in a reply to you! "Yesterday I was a dog. Today I'm a dog. Tomorrow I'll probably still be a dog. (...) (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) that the reply I gave was not the best one I could have posted, but I do have the right to defend myself. The issue for me is *not* where the bickering could have ended, but why it needed to start? Larry has said the he was right to attack my (...) (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) A policy can seem unfair and yet still be just. Life is not "fair". But we nevertheless should strive for justice. (...) Yes I should have. And if, in future, if the placement of bait itself results in some timeouts for the baiter (even if (...) (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) I dispute that it was an "attack". But the question of what level of competitive response is appropriate on LUGNET(tm) is a valid question, which I would love to see someone else take up by starting a new thread. I suggest neither Scott nor I (...) (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) Thread so started in lugnet.market.theory. Frank (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) really, Larry. That's absurd. I refuse to spend my time hunting down each instance of what might have been intended as bicker-bait and quickly shutting down the posters, purely to help eliminate temptation for those who have difficulty with (...) (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) I actually agree with you on this. Giving the initial baiter a timeout in this instance would have made me less likely to have typed my "sigh" post... and also these ones: (URL) A =+= Have you inspected Arthur’s Seat yet? (URL) reasonable man (...) (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) Ok thanks for the clarification. So you're saying it's OK to bait people all that you want, but anyone rising to it is potentially at risk? I'll keep that in mind. (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) I think she is saying that you are an adult and you are responsable for your actions. Just like everyone is. If Suz feels someone crosses the line, they will deal with the consequences of their actions, regardless of the cause. Jude (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) All true but I am trying to find out what the line is so I can decide whether to support or oppose. Is it OK to bait people as long as they don't rise to the bait? Most of the time when Scott baits me, I don't rise it it. I'm pretty proud of (...) (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) Look at it like a challenge, strive for purfection. <g> I hope Suz will deal with the baiting. But you are responsible for what you do with what is thrown at you. Let her deal with Scott. Jude (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) How? Is this policy part of it? Or not? Many people acknowledge that he's a problem but so far nothing has worked. (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) uhg, I am *so* sick of the "I need to know where the line is" b.s. Your poor elementary school teachers... I can hear you now: "..yes Ms. Bizzbee, BUT, if I have gum in my mouth and I'm not chewing it, is that ok? because the rule says 'no gum (...) (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions, lugnet.general) !
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(...) And you're bickering with *me* (and a little grandstanding besides(1), truth be told) because you'd rather just ignore the very real problem of Scott Arthur and hope it goes away. It won't. You've enabled his behaviour. But OK, whatever. Your (...) (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) Well if this is an actual vote of the people, then I vote for working on the letter. If this wasn't an actual vote then please ignore this post. :) thanks, mark (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions, lugnet.general)
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(...) It doesn't *matter* whether you support or oppose it. LUGNET is not a democracy. If Suz wants to give you or anyone else a "time out" for whatever reason, that's her prerogative. --Bill. (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) jumping to your own conclusions. and incorrect. (...) Look, I can not define provocation, so cannot use that as a basis for punishment. and that's not being said for Scott's benefit. (...) wrong. If the membership makes payments for time I (...) (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) Sounds like about the only plausible solution to me... Perhaps in a perfect world Suz could spend time punishing baiters, but it sounds like that's not gonna happen. (...) I dunno if I'd be so proud if that were my record. If cars crashed only (...) (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) Larry: There seems to be some absurd assertion that Scott A. is some kind of significant threat to the stability/civility of Lugnet, but I just don't see it. Even if I were to accept that Scott were such a threat, then I would suggest that you (...) (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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Okay. I've been watching this for nearly a year, saying very little, but this thread's got my goat. Baaa. (...) Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. Larry, I have always had a great deal of respect for you, even when we disagree--but this kind of thing (...) (22 years ago, 14-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) These words are baiting, and I totally reject what you are trying to say. I'd be amazed if you could back this up. In fact, I'll give ten pounds to charity if you can show me/us the alleged "95+%" baits you have ignored from me and the alleged (...) (22 years ago, 15-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) Your obsession with me is getting rather worrying? When is this going to end? Scott A (22 years ago, 15-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) I agree. What Larry is doing is doing nothing for LUGNET, I wish he would just stand back and think about that. I have him told as much via e-mail. Scott A (...) (22 years ago, 15-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions, lugnet.general)
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Y'know Scott, as the other half of this particular problem you should accept a very considerable portion of the blame for it. Just because someone else has taken the opportunity to point out some of Larry's possible flaws is no reason for you to (...) (22 years ago, 15-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions, lugnet.general)
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(...) None of us are perfect Richard. I have already admitted I could have worded a couple of posts a little better. I do have some humility. (...) I'm tired of it. I'm not amused by it. I’m not a mean person, and I try not to gloat. (...) <whine (...) (22 years ago, 15-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions, lugnet.general)
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Sorry. I boobed. I had no idea this was heading for .general. FUT lugnet.admin.suggestions Scott A (22 years ago, 15-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions, lugnet.general)
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(...) Really? I thought I was a huge Charles M. Schulz fan and I don't remember that one. I'm gonna have to go look thru my collection of Charlie Brown comic books to find that one. In my list of favourite 'toon characters of all time: #1 - Snoopy (...) (22 years ago, 15-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) I agree 100% with Richard. (...) I can see how that would be incredibly frustrating. I have my distinct opinions on who is the corrosive one, but I really think at this point both of you are devaluing the LUGNET experience for the users who (...) (22 years ago, 15-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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I would just like to say that the extent of the discussions that have gone on here in the Lugnet Commuity are on the whole about Lego as it should be. I don't know how to fully encapsulate my fellings on how much that has drifted, suffice to say (...) (22 years ago, 16-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) As I have said before, I would like to see o-t.d changed so that new threads cannot be started there. Scott A =+= Have you inspected Arthur’s Seat yet? (URL) reasonable man adapts himself to suit his environment. An unreasonable man persists (...) (22 years ago, 16-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) That's not a bad idea. It could't prevent the general behavior, but would discourage it, and make a point to those people who tried it for the first time. -Suz (22 years ago, 16-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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Denying new threads would do nothing except make it harder for people to ignore threads they have no interest in, since people would be replying to current threads to fire off a new topic (more than is already done so). It would accomplish nothing (...) (22 years ago, 16-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) I'll add my voice in opposition to this proposal also. It will result in a couple things: - it will do nothing to stop the current debates, there's plenty of existing threads to hang off of - it will clutter other threads with debate (right (...) (22 years ago, 16-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) o.t-debate is for discussing things not related to LEGO, so if I wanted to start a discourse on, say, the merits of green crayons as opposed to red crayons for colouring the grass in my neices 'Sailor Moon' colouring book, and I wanted (...) (22 years ago, 16-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) admin.roundtable turned into the group you're using now, admin.suggestions. This is the place for discussing modification of charters, etc. I chose not to use the word 'roundtable' (even though it was an appropriate word) because I did not (...) (22 years ago, 17-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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(...) I wouldn't have made that connotation, but then, here at IBM, roundtables are meetings where upper management brings a bunch of peons into the room to just have an open discussion. (...) It does seem to be working pretty well, and is keeping a (...) (22 years ago, 17-May-02, to lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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