Subject:
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Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.admin.general
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Date:
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Sat, 5 Mar 2005 01:49:44 GMT
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In lugnet.admin.general, Leonard Hoffman wrote:
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What I don’t understand Janey - is how does anyone see what Chris did as
analogous to what is normally done here on Lugnet? When I read his post, I
don’t see rhetoric, I don’t see criticism, I don’t see anything that could be
construed as constructive at all. I don’t see a plea for change, I don’t see
him raising an important issue to the admins. I see an entire post designed
to hurt someone else. And not just a pot shot - it is a call for other
people to come and hurt him too.
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Okay, I was holding off replying, but the night is getting short, so I am going
to try to explain this to the best of my ability... Sorry it’s a “novel”.
First of all, I can see many points of views/sides to this story.
4 that I will touch on, as for the others, I don’t want to break any
confidences.
Lenny, from this post, it is clear to me that it is the contest that upset you
and factored into your decision of placing the indefinite suspension. You ask me
how (what Chris did) is this analogous to what is normally done on Lugnet? Well
to me its simple, its not analogous at all because the contest was not held
here. Firstly lets make it known, Chris is not the only one that has said
undesirable things elsewhere about Lugnet. Im not saying the contest is right,
and frankly, yes, it was mean spirited. But the contest was not held here, it
was off this site, and somewhere completely else, a place that is not covered by
the ToU. Lenny you are the first one that posted it here, (without an admin hat
on) with a shame on you attitude, meant to make a point to Chris. I think that
attitude was fair, you saw something you didnt like, and felt it wasnt anyway
for Larry to be treated. That is more than valid! Does Chris deserve a
spanking??? Probably. Does Chris deserve a stern talking to ?? Yes, I think he
does. But truly the real question is, does Chris deserve a suspension? No Way!
There is No doubt in my mind because the ToU covers only what is said here.
The only thing about the contest that Chris said here was “is yes, its real”.
He did not advertise it, in fact he not only removed the link in his reply, but
he also shut down the contest when it was clear to him that it was a request by
Lugnet. Certainly no one can be held responsible for something not even said
here, or I am in deep trouble.
Larry and I also discussed this, when I could no longer convince him, he told me
to go to Lugnet, prove why Chris is not breaking the ToU based on his “prayer
post”. I will take him up on that challenge now. Actually this one to me is so
simple. It’s what I like to call “set precedents - in other words, behaviour
that has always be accepted here” To me the prayer post was just a “whooohooo”
after Larry had already given up on the community by saying “I have better
things to do with my time, frankly, than babysit a bunch of people who are
trying to push my buttons for their own amusement.” Sadly, that happens all the
time on Lugnet.... may I suggest, almost every “Im Leaving Post”..... someone
says “Whooo hoooo, don’t let the door hit you on the way out”..... for many “I
hate click-hinges/bley/juniorised parts”, someone says “Whooohooo - Give up the
hobby, I will gladly take your bricks” etc..... these “whooohooo” comments, are
just ppls way (usually) of saying, “It’s just some bricks, get over it”. In
fact I know I recall that quote being posted just this week. Someone please
explain to me what the difference between Chris saying “thanks lord” because he
though Lar might leave any different to admins or members saying “go find your
own sandbox, fly your kite elsewhere” to ppl that express being fed up, just as
Larry did?? Not to mention the slamming Jake takes. Heck one time recently I
saw a post directed to Todd, telling him “to take his hippie tree hugging ways
home” (sorry paraphrased as I couldn’t find the actual post). I thought to
myself..... wow, takes a lot of rudeness to punch a guy right in his own house,
in fact I was insulted (at that moment if I was an admin, I would have thought
about a public “spanking”). Then wow few minutes later, reality hits when
someone told me they were great friends and it was just a joke.
As for Chris, I have defended it to the best of my ability. He has expressed
to me, that he knows the contest was a bad idea. He knows that the time line of
“events” clearly show that although what he did wasn’t smart, he technically did
NOT violate the ToU. He has communicated with an admin. Until things are
clearer and he hears back from him, he has promised that he will not post
anywhere out of respect for Lugnet.
My own side. I do not see either post, the prayer or the contest a breech of
the ToU. Larry and Chris have had words many times, once sadly, involving my
own silly stunt. With that fact, and the fact that the contest was placed on a
domain owed by me, I felt a protest was in order. Not because I think Chris
actions were acceptable, only because I think it is detrimental to punish any
one that did not break any stated rules.
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That to me is the big difference. Chris just wants to hurt Larry. Can you
show me someone else who has written a post who’s sole purpose is to do harm?
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IMO, the mud slinging, name calling and other forms of pure rude behaviour by a
few members has few goals, mainly to cause harm or calm a fit of enraged ego.
Sadly, name calling is a frequent occurrence.
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I think up Marchetti’s infamous reply to Jon. I see this as being on the
same scale. People keep talking about being consistent - I personally can’t
see how this is so inconsistent.
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Before anyone freaks that I’m trying to make new rules in a sandbox that
doesn’t belong to me, or I’m whining or whatever else you want to claim, keep
in mind, I had the backing of all the admins. in the discussion, except the
one that vetoed me.
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I agreed with you because I have enormous respect for you.
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We talked at great lengths about this, and I hope that I made if very clear the
respect goes both ways.
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I personally
dislike the idea of anyone trying to get suspended on purpose. I seriously
did not like it when Jamie Obrien did it, and I didn’t like it when you
asked.
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I know you didn’t like it, but I also appreciate the fact that you know that I
was trying to make a serious point within the ToU without being inflammatory.
Loud and clear, it is not the admins, it is not the members, it is the huge
amounts of grey areas with in the ToU of which I am protesting.
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I have a difficult time understanding what your protest is about -
that is, if it isn’t directed at me. I was a part of every major decision
the Lugnet Admins have made over the past few months.
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Lenny I have no protest with the admins. My protest is with the process of
suspensions. Apparently I am not alone in feeling that Chris’ suspension was a
knee jerk reaction. He was not asked to remove his posts yet when others that
have sworn they have been given that option. The process then becomes
confusing, to me, a prayer must fall somewhere under breaking the profanity
rules. I know why you felt it was needed to be done, but anyone familiar with
the history between the two of them knows that they both dropped the gloves a
long time ago. Of the admins I talked to, none was familiar with the past
transgressions between them. Also since this suspension and my request of a
suspension involved Larry directly, I feel it truly is a conflict of interest
and it would only be fair that he would not have been included in those
decisions.
My plea for a veto is still on the table, I hope someone will take me up on it.
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If the aim is to get Larry to step down, then I’m going with him. I don’t
want to be on a website where if someone who is so talented, knowledgeable,
and committed is removed just because he is unpopular.
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The aim is not mine to say, it was not my contest. But I for one don’t want any
of the admins to step down, I appreciate all the work that is being done to make
this “sandbox” free of cat droppings. This post was made with my best
intentions. A reply to answer questions of an admin, and in hopes of working
together towards a common goal.
Sincerely,
Janey Red Brick
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Suspend me as well
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| (...) Although not granted an actual suspension due to my protest I have limited my postings to .admin and have imposed a self suspension for all other groups on Lugnet, during this time I have greatly considered the intent of my actions. I (...) (19 years ago, 6-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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