 | | Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P — Leonard Hoffman
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| | | Chris Magno has been suspended indefinately for baiting and personal attacks. Specifically his 'contest' to drive out Lugnet Administrator Larry Pieniazek shows his rampant disrespect for Lugnet, the Lugnet Administration, and for the Lugnet ToU. (...) (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | (...) No, they can't. I'm totally at a loss. PS: You might wanna review you links before you post next time, the examples of posts by Chris point to the same post. ROSCO (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | (...) I object. Chris withdrew is contest out of respect for lugnet. I do think there are problems with the rules and their administration by some of the admins. I believe that both are workable while reenstating the respectful tone that we all used (...) (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P — Leonard Hoffman
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| | | | | | (...) Not entirely true. Chris (URL) his contest out of respect for Todd - which shows that Chris does not respect Todd's choices in who Todd has elevated to Admin status. (...) It followed the established process for suspensions. An Admin proposed (...) (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | (...) Is it required? (...) Then I object again. (...) And yet, Admins can insult and berate sarcastically and have no warnings or admonishment of any kind? (...) Kevin (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Leonard Hoffman
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| | | | | | (...) It is required that all other members be respected. Those who have volunteered to give their time and efforts to the better good, especially. On a more legalistic note, posts by Admins as Admins (using the @lugnet address) should be considered (...) (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | (...) You require is completely unreasonable. Good luck enforcing it. What is required is that people be treated with respect, which is not the same as having respect for them. Again, I will point out that Larry has been extremely disrespectull in (...) (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Leonard Hoffman
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| | | | | | | (...) Perhaps I should word my responce differently. To me, treating someone with respect is essentially the same as respecting them. Regardless, treat everyone with respect. (...) Well, you asked whether it was a vote. I thought maybe you thought (...) (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Yes, I have been and will continue to do so. I view them very differently. Maybe its just me. snip (...) Is the line the same for Admins, or are they held to a higher standard? (...) Me too, but it is nap time. Have a good evening, and thanks (...) (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Benjamin Medinets
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| | | | | | | | | | I (...) Kevin, you raise a valid point here. This is not to take a personal snipe at admins, but it seems this whole "situation" that the Admins get to do what they want because "they are selfless volunteers for the greater good". I personally (...) (16 years ago, 7-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Hi Ben, I have been in email contact with the Admin team, and *know* that this and many other points raised in this thread have been noted, as indicated by a few of Todd's post. Noted is a serious understatement, but I cannot come up with (...) (16 years ago, 7-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Clearly the Admins have apologised for their (unspecified) errors. However, how can members (I'm not one) accept an apology when those involved are not willing to say what they are apologising for? In the past transgressors have been asked to (...) (16 years ago, 7-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | | In lugnet.admin.general, Kevin L. Clague wrote: <snip> (...) <snip> (...) <snip> I'm with Kevin on this--the points have been made and now lie in the purview of the admins. Rehashing the ground will just cause added consteration for parties (...) (16 years ago, 7-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | In lugnet.admin.general, Leonard Hoffman wrote: <snip> (...) I go play with my LEGO collection for an evening, leaving y'all alone and this is what you come up with??? Wow. Here's the thing--now, that the dust is settling, and we all have hindsight, (...) (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX) !
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| | | | | | | | | | Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —C. L. GunningCook
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| | | | | | | | (...) YAY Dave!!!!!!! Pushed to protest..... I tried earlier to get suspended, I came really really close, but apparently it's not that easy to do. I sent this email to Todd, from which he sent it out to the rest of the admins with my permission. (...) (20 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX) !!
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —Leonard Hoffman
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| | | | | | | | (...) What I don't understand Janey - is how does anyone see what Chris did as analogous to what is normally done here on Lugnet? When I read his post, I don't see rhetoric, I don't see criticism, I don't see anything that could be construed as (...) (20 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry). —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Lenny, Why is he so unpopular? If it is due to his poor interpersonal skills, why not have him do the behind the scenes stuff? Scott A (20 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, lugnet.admin.suggestions)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —C. L. GunningCook
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| | | | | | | | (...) Okay, I was holding off replying, but the night is getting short, so I am going to try to explain this to the best of my ability... Sorry it's a "novel". First of all, I can see many points of views/sides to this story. 4 that I will touch on, (...) (20 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX) !
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —Leonard Hoffman
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| | | | | | | | | (...) The contest is unique - it was a public attempt to remove someone from Lugnet. I feel that its flagrant-ness, plus Chris's obmission that it was not intended as a joke, move it from the 'only on this site' situation. I feel that it contradicts (...) (20 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Oh My Goodness--so anything that happens on another website but pertains to someone who posts on LUGNET can get you 'timed out' from LUGNET? Is this an unstated-but-official policy? So if I were to post something in my blog at Sparky's Space (...) (20 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —Calum Tsang
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Listen, I was really offended by your "Get Calum to leave rtlToronto and Win a Metroliner" contest! :) Calum (20 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —Kevin Wilson
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| | | | | | | | | | | | David Koudys wrote in message ... (...) an (...) at (...) Not "anything that happens on another website but pertains to someone who posts on LUGNET". This was specifically aimed at getting multiple people to harass someone (doesn't matter that it (...) (20 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) "Trying", yes. But the ToU cited does not mention anything about "trying". Nor should it. ROSCO (20 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Lenny, you don't seriously believe Chris violated that do you? Even if anyone WAS prepared to enter, it would be Larry, not Chris, not the entrant who would be making the decision to leave. Chris has not restricted Larry's use of the (...) (20 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —Leonard Hoffman
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I've been trying to help everyone understand. But you're right - I shouldn't have been doing that. I made the decision, with other Admins, and I am comfortable with it. As I have stated several times, I believe Chris broke the ToU, and whether (...) (20 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Now that's something different again. That means the ToU mean diddly squat, all that matters is the Admins' interpretation of them. So even if I agree to the ToU, I can still be suspended on the grounds that I broke the ToU, if the Admins all (...) (20 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Leonard, The contest was created in a domain other than lugnet. You bring the topic to lugnet. In doing so, you forced it to be a "not only on this site" situation. Suddenly now the ToU applies to the contest. I still don't get that. I'll ask (...) (20 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX) !!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | | I responded in this post: (URL) I read and responded to this post: (URL) (20 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —Mark Papenfuss
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| | | | | | | | | | | In lugnet.admin.general, Kevin L. Clague wrote: -snip great post- Kevin - awesome post. I just wish it was outside the Admin tree so all could see it when it was spotlighted. I hope we get some sort of REAL answer to your points. I think it was bad (...) (20 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general) !!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Unfotunatly, given Leonard's post, it seems that all that we say here is irrelevent. (...) Todd has been a gentleman and addressed some of my issues, but I doubt very seriously that any of my questions regarding the justification of Chris' (...) (20 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —Ondrew Hartigan
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I completely agree with the above statements as I have witnessed and experienced much of what Kevin spoke of. OnDrew . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (20 years ago, 6-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well (was Susp. of Chris and Terry) —Tom Dickson
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Wow! LUGNET is becoming more and more like a soap box opera every day! Soon I won't feel bad about not having cable anymore. Keep up the good work. (20 years ago, 6-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Suspend me as well —C. L. GunningCook
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| | | | | | | | (...) Although not granted an actual suspension due to my protest I have limited my postings to .admin and have imposed a self suspension for all other groups on Lugnet, during this time I have greatly considered the intent of my actions. I (...) (20 years ago, 6-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | (canceled) — Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P — Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | (...) Sage advice. (...) You raise a good point there. In the future this needs to be taken under advisement if things become personal for whatever reason. (...) You ask a lot of good, tough questions in this post, and these being discussed in the (...) (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | (...) I have another question Todd: If an admin has their posting privileges suspended, do they still have input on decisions about other member's posting privs? ROSCO (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P — Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | (...) An excellent question, Ross! I would suppose it depends on the nature of the admin's suspension. If a conflict of interest is present, then I believe input should be limited. We're in new territory lately, so I can't give a truly official (...) (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Richie Dulin
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| | | | | (...) Crass and rude insults *will* be tolerated it seems. I think, the last para of this is (URL) post> is crass, rude and insulting to several users. -snip- (...) Nope. Not by a long shot. Regards Richie Dulin (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Benjamin Medinets
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| | | | | | I (...) I think your right Richie. However, that particular post is cancelled, so it can be withdrawn from the equation. Thanks, Ben Medinets (16 years ago, 7-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Mark Papenfuss
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| | | | | (...) You guys are truly out of control - this is just amazing. The only thing being done here is making things much worse. And yes, Larry should be removed from the Admin team for his lack of respect towards the Lugnet members - it is a shame an (...) (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: UNJUST Singling Out of Chris Magno and Terry P —Tony Alexander
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| | | | | | | (...) Agreed. I rarely take part in these forums any more because of this kind of snowballing stupidity. Chris and Terry were hardly the only ones breaking 'posting guidelines'. They were both baited as well, with "nothing new being brought to the (...) (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general) !
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| | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Benjamin Medinets
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| | | | | | (...) I think it should go one step farther. BOTH Larry and Lenny should be dismissed, maybe not permanently but for a temporary indeterminate amount of time. The Lugnet Administrators was set up to alieviate the burden of running the day to day (...) (16 years ago, 7-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | (...) Larry was suspended, *by* Lenny. All that transpired on both sides is being reviewd with the intent on making the process and procedures better. That is all that one can ask for. This is not a democracy, but I would vote against any sanctions (...) (16 years ago, 7-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —David Eaton
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| | | | | (...) Wow. I could see maybe a few days or a week or something, because I agree that some things were said that probably shouldn't have been. But indefinitely? Do Chris and Terry really rank up there with Matthew Moulton and Richard Marchetti, who (...) (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | (...) Lenny, Given the new information about that the contest was not created on lugnet, and the fact that news of the contest was not brought to lugnet by Chris, I decided to reread the articles you cited for justifying Chris' "indefinite (...) (16 years ago, 4-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX) !
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| | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Leonard Hoffman
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| | | | | | (...) "I never meant “indefinate” to mean “permanent” - rather, “suspended currently, for how long to be decided upon later.”" From (URL) this post>. I am not going to discuss this anymore. The Admins have made their decision. Thank you for your (...) (16 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | (...) You are welcome. (...) Fortunatly Todd has encourage continued input, so I will continue feedback to all Admins. Kevin (16 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —David Koudys
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| | | | | | (...) Bush made the decision to invade Iraq. No further scrutiny needed. Not that I'm one for 'low blows', but Lenny, are you listening to what you're saying? Seriously, what you're in fact saying is if we have a problem with the king, we have zero (...) (16 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Marc Nelson, Jr.
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| | | | | | (...) I really don't think dragging contemporary politics into this discussion is going to be very productive. Actually, LUGNET is supposed to be an oligarchy (for a while at least) - see Todd's post (URL) "Taking LUGNET to the next level"> from (...) (16 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX) !
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| | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Benjamin Medinets
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| | | | | | that bucket o' bolts... (...) Wow!! The first bit of reasonable logic I heard here in a while. Nice suggestions Marc. I just hope that Todd reads it, because this is the system that Lugnet needs to try to transition to, without it becoming too much (...) (16 years ago, 7-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | I see nothing wrong with considering this. However, I do wonder how many people would be willing to stand for election? I also expect Todd would want to retain the right to veto any proposed admin. Scott A (...) (16 years ago, 7-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: Suspension of Chris Magno and Terry P —Chris Magno
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| | | | Len, Todd, Lar, et al; In the interest of all that I have enjoyed about Lugnet, I offer the following: I have recognized the fact that I am under a unique indefinite suspension. I acknowledge that the ToU applies to everyone, even me, and I am (...) (16 years ago, 5-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general) !
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