Subject:
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Re: "Peace" can be dangerous (was: Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: ..)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:52:23 GMT
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Viewed:
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707 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
>
> > > Hamas, for instance, has publically declared their desire to not end their
> > > fight until Israel is no longer. Peace is dangerous when one side's idea of
> > > it is the elimination of the other side.
>
> > There are those in Israel who want to do the same to the Palestinians. You
> > are using the views of extremists to condemn a whole nation.
>
> Wanting and doing are two very different things. Besides, I have tried to make
> distinctions between Palestinian extremists and the GP all the time. It is my
> criticism of them that *they* aren't making that distinction more.
Are you saying Israeli extremists do not murder Palestinians out of pure
hate? Are you saying Israeli extremists did not wreck Oslo and Oslo II?
>
> > In the post you responded to I cited two articles. You chose to criticise
> > the one backing dialogue and mutual respect. This is despite the unpalatable
> > nature of the second text:
> >
> > "I am sure that Jews kill Arabs only for self-defence and justice, but Arabs
> > do it because they like to kill."
> >
> > "The Arab has the instinct of murder and killing like all gentiles, and only
> > Jews do not have that instinct - that is a genetic fact."
> >
> > So why label peace as "dangerous" and let racism off the hook? Do you not
> > view the comments in the second text as "dangerous" also?
>
> Those views are wacky as well, but I reject your attempt to establish some sort
> of moral equivalency here. Murdering civilians the way Palestinian terrorists
> do is WAY wrong-- it doesn't matter what their grievances are-- it is *never*
> justified. They become instantly as guilty as those who oppress them. Do you
> agree?
I agree they are oppressed. I agree murdering civilians is wrong. I reject
the notion that there is an acceptable “way” to murder civilians. Do you
know otherwise?
>
> For the most part, the IDF violence upon the Palestinians is in retaliation for
> terrorist attacks.
lol. Do you deny the daily beatings and humiliations Palestinians suffer at
the hands of the IDF?
Read this:
Suspects beaten near minister
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4479947,00.html
and this:
High Court decision gives green light for collective punishment
http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE151272002?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\ISRAEL/OCCUPIED+TERRITORIES
“This judgment gives a green light for collective punishment in the Occupied
Territories… …Destroying Palestinian homes to punish whole families for a
crime committed by others, is a war crime.”
> They *have* to respond lest they embolden the terrorists.
> That is a simple fact. I know you don't agree, and I'm not willing to debate
> it. The *worst* thing one can do in response to terrorism is to do nothing--
> it is like a big green light to these people.
Perhaps the Palestinians are saying the same of the Israelis? Anyhow, I'm
not suggesting they "do nothing".
> There is no "cycle of violence".
Does Hammas not retaliate after Israel kills civilians?
Does Israel not retaliate after Hammas kills civilians?
Does Hammas not retaliate after Israel kills civilians?
Does Israel not retaliate after Hammas kills civilians?
Does Hammas not retaliate after Israel kills civilians?
Does Israel not retaliate after Hammas kills civilians?
Does Hammas not retaliate after Israel kills civilians?
Does Israel not retaliate after Hammas kills civilians?
Does Hammas not retaliate after Israel kills civilians?
Does Israel not retaliate after Hammas kills civilians?
etc...
> Even if Israel stopped responding in force to terrorist attacks, they would
> continue.
I expect they would - but the number would reduce. The number will reduce
further when Israel gives back what is has stolen. At that point the "GP"
will turn away from violence and Hammas will wither.
Scott A
>
> -John
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