Subject:
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Re: "Peace" can be dangerous (was: Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: ..)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:27:04 GMT
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Viewed:
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747 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > > Even if Israel stopped responding in force to terrorist attacks, they would
> > > continue.
>
> > I expect they would - but the number would reduce. The number will reduce
> > further when Israel gives back what is has stolen. At that point the "GP"
> > will turn away from violence and Hammas will wither.
>
> Yes, well, this is where we differ. Maybe the number would reduce, but so
> what?
What do you mean? Isn't that the goal? The only goal? Isn't saving lives the
whole reason for concern? I hope it's not just about retribution for you.
> There will *always* be terrorist attacks on Israel by extremist Arabs
> until the last Israeli is dead.
This can only be said if you extend the timeframe infinitely. It's like saying
there will always be acts of domestic terrorism in the US. It's probably true
if you're taking a snapshot of fifty year blocks.
> No amount of land, or reparations, or anything
> will ever change that.
I think you're wrong. In fact, I think that no land or reparations are needed.
Time is enough. But the time needed would decrease if Israel were playing the
good guy. There is no reason to believe that people as individuals -- and
more, peoples as cultures, don't or won't change. The one thing you can count
on is that they _will_.
> It is naive and dangerous to think otherwise.
Unlike assuming that a perpetual vengence and death machine is the solution?
> Even *if* the Palestinians make peace with Israel, they will have
> made enemies with Hamas and other such terrorist organizations
> -- Hamas' existence is not dependent upon Palestinian support,
> but rather Saudi and Iraqi $$$.
Do you think that any amount of Saudi and Iraqi money would bring citizens of
the MSP area out dancing in the streets at bombings in NYC? I don't. As such,
it's obvious that it isn't simply fat foreign capital causing Palestinian
unrest. As Palestine forms a coherent legal body and sense of self, they will
reject Hamas because Hamas will bring trouble. Today Hamas is not bringing
trouble. It is the system that needs to change. The traditional way to make
people behave like they have something to lose is to give them something to
lose.
We need to make the lives of the Palestinians better so that they have a reason
to reject the violence.
> The dirty little secret is that extremist Islamists are just as much the Arab
> world's enemy as they are Israel's or the US's.
Absolutely! But the impoverished, repressed, ignorant commoners don't see it
that way. They think that the violent extremists are the key to their future.
We need to remove that illusion if we ever want them to know peace.
Chris
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