 | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight)
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(...) Faulty thinking and faulty assumptions again. Your having faith is an observable phenomenon that can be studied. Science would not deny that existence of your *having* faith -- it might study the chemical or physical reasons that you maintain (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | More pop-stuff from me :)
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(URL) gonna spend part of my upcoming vacation reading this stuff (and others, too, I assure you) I love the 'Million Dollar Reward' concept for any demonstrable showing of a paranormal experience. Anywho, there you are. Dave K. (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight)
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(...) Since you cast aspersions on Chris' reading comprehension in (URL) is inexcusable that you should fail to read his subsequent post correctly. He is not questioning the "reasons" for your assertion; he's questioning the "reasoning" for it. Can (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I'd caution that "infinite" still does not mean "comprehensive," since we could in theory study the potential spatial relationships between two particles and find an infinite number of potential combinations, and that's just two particles. And (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Science & religion are not the only options
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Erik Olson writes: <snip> (...) Rats! Well, that one's out then... Dave (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight)
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(...) Forgetting about the nature of my particular chosen religion, and *my* God therein, the question before us is, 'Can *something* exist outside of science?' The idea that I have a faith in an infinite God is inconsequential. The thought that (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight)
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(...) out (...) Yes, I understand. I suppose I was using a short-hand description. My bad. I think we all know and understand what you're asserting. And it's still wrong. It seems that you are suggesting that the nature of "a god" is to (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes: <snip> (...) <snip> (...) <snip> And that point is tiresome for me to point out again, and again, and again, but I will, because pointing out the truth, as people here may agree--is the right (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight)
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I thought I had quit this thread, but this note was too cool! I think it would make an interesting qualitative study of newsgroup dynamics to get the major participants of a bulky thread to recap the thread in detail. Each of them would emphasize (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Faith and Science (was Re: slight)
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Religious persons seem to have a need to create a false opposition between faith and science where no such opposition exists, at least not from the science side of it. To explain this problem I note the following definitions: 1) Faith can be defined (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight)
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(...) Good researching. I did take myself out back and slapped myself around a bit--well, figuratively anyway. And I have no problem admitting that, in that particular debate about Ev'n vs Cr'm, things did get a little outta hand (some even had to (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Science & religion are not the only options
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(...) Nope, sorry. The druids didn't integrate very well into the Empire. A young druid named Vader hunted them down and destroyed the last of the Druids. Now their order is all but extinct. No, totally extinct. Gaius Julius Caesar took some notes (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight)
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(...) One guess where I was when my son decided the computer was his to use.... The bird has a new technique to avoid the harness: he puts his head down flush with my arm so that I can't loop it around him. He's too flipping smart (but he's still a (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight)
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(...) Aughhh, it's times like that when you just need to step away and get some fresh air... maybe walk the dog... and the cat... the bird.... Maggie C. (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Science & religion are not the only options
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(...) Sorry, all I know about druids comes from Spinal Tap's epic "Stonehenge"(from the infamous "Black" album), which Nigel describes as "an anthem to my Druidic ancestors." Who were they and what were they doing? -John (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight)
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My son wandered in and logged me off when I stepped away and wiped out my almost finished reply. I'm not going to go back and type it up all again for two reasons. One is that it is too much work. Second is that all I'm doing is being forced to (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Science & religion are not the only options
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, William R. Ward writes: <snip> (...) Actually, my 'little' understanding of the druidic, I'm kinda intrigued. Anybody have links and/or a good resource about being a druid? My curiosity is piqued. Dave K. (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Science & religion are not the only options
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I haven't read the entire thread because there's just too darn much of it. But I've read a fair chunk of it, and I'm struck by the insistence that there are only two ways to look at things: science or religion (specifically, Christianity). The (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes: <snip> (...) K, lets look at the one quotatoin that this is directly in resonse to, and let me try to show you how I interpreted it without any straw men in sight: Quoteth Richard (I think): (...) "My (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) K, we're just not reading one another here. At all. And I don't know if both of us are just being obtuse, but here's my premise: Science is a good way for us to come to understand the physical universe. Things may exist outside the scope of (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Long walk off a short plank?
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(...) The trouble with birds are that you can fawn over them all day and then they come to expect it (Cockatoos are the worst if you indulge them). When I take time off from work, I'm usually careful not to show the bird more attention than usual. (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) As I said, Richard's identification of your straw man argument doesn't make it so; your argument is a straw man because it caricatures your opponent's position and in so doing you attempt to give yourself an easier target to attack. The fact (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Long walk off a short plank?
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(...) Congos are better talkers as well; perhaps the best. Only Yellow Napes and Double Yellowheads can compare. I used to care for parrots, but never owned one. I think that they are among (if not the most) demanding of all pets. To be truly happy, (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Long walk off a short plank?
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(...) I just flashed on walking catfish. Oh no, you mean this can get worse? And then John's message. Do I need Steve Irwin to help walk the cobra? "Crikey! What's a cob-ra doing in rattlesnayke country? Watch me put me thumb us his..." Bruce (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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You have so completely oversimplified the possibilities in your analysis that a complete evaluation would be quite lengthy. (...) No one thinks this. At least not any more than every feeling-complex is purely physical because our brain contains our (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Long walk off a short plank?
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(...) But did he try to take the cobra on a walk? :-) Congo. For anyone that doesn't understand those cryptic words, the African Grey comes in two varieties: Congo and Timneh. The former is slightly larger and lighter, the latter is slightly smaller (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Go back and look since you clearly didn't bother to read it in the first place. (...) Another attempt at an emotional response: imply that emotional responses must be "touchy-feely" and therefore something of derision that you wouldn't use. (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I thought it was an accurate summation of his position, and not a simplistic caricature at all, and I did not see any proof to the contrary, just the <delete> 'straw man arguement', and therefore my claim that 'calling it a straw man arguement (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Long walk off a short plank?
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(...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Long walk off a short plank?
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(...) Not even close. But this guy almost did: (URL) Congo or Timneh? (I assume Congo) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Long walk off a short plank?
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(...) [ka-snippity] (...) end? ...not until the bird says it's time to go for a walk, *and you listen to him* ;-) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) You are exactly correct. What makes it a straw argument is the fact that you made a simplistic caricature of Richard's argument and then addressed it as though it was an accurate summation of his position. That is the very definition of a (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Long walk off a short plank?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes: <snip> (...) I just have fish .:Pout:. Oh, and a robot that sometimes follows me around the livingroom when it's so inclined. Dave (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Show me. Just don't say it's a false premise and clip it. It's like, 'I don't agree with that--it doesn't make scientific sense, therefore its false or invalid' which *is* the very nature of this discussion. I never wanted to invoke an (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Long walk off a short plank?
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No, this isn't about science, or religion, or politics (though no doubt it will transmogrify into that if it goes on long enough, but that is another theory for another day). It's about..... (dramatic pause for effect) ...taking the dog for a walk. (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) wasn't saying you were making that assertion, noting how you argued ~against~ it. that viewpoint is shared by many here and zillions over the globe that humans are the only ones with souls, as we once thought we were the center of the physical (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, James Brown writes: <snip> (...) Well, there's a movie called 'The 7 Year Itch'... ;) Dave K (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I said "an emotional appeal", not emotions. I've clipped the rest of your paragraph because it was preceeding on a false premise. An emotional appeal is one that does not rely on fact, but instead tries to invoke an emotional response to gain (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Really? Do you have a convenient cite for this? I did some google searching, and only found 2nd or 3rd hand references of dubious quality. I have heard the 4-6 year thing before, but never from a particularly qualified source. It's also never (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I believe that this is the intellectual hubris that Dave K is refering to when he talks about elevating science to godhood. By rejecting the notion that there might be anything science cannot address, you are attributing a universality to the (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Just because you say it's a straw man, don't make it so. Quoteth Hop-Frog (...) Further quoteth (...) Not a straw man arguement--you state in the paragraph above that there will *always* be something new to study. How can you make that (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Then no problem. (...) I'm saying that many aspects of colour preference is quite inside the realm of scientific inquiry, just as stydying a candle and it's many psychological and physiological impacts on a human can, and *should* be studied (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) No, my mistake -- fair enough. James did state something very like your own statement. I read too quickly I guess...sorry. Mea culpa. (...) I suppose it could, but it would not (proving a negative, etc.). That's not the purpose of scientific (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) This is why hypothetical situations fail, particularly when in relation to members of the opposite sex :). Thus far all that has been discussed is based upon a series of hypothetical people who all think that sex is something that is based (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) There is no such assertion being made by me. Human examples merely avoid the extra step of having to describe how one knows the experience of another species. I think I read "Ghost in the Machine" many, many years ago. A lot of the stuff that (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) Darn it Chris, I'm trying to pick a fight here. Rise to it, man! Rise to it! (...) That would indeed be a strange lab to perform. Dave! (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) This hominid-centric viewpoint that we are the sole custodians of emotions baffles me. Richard you do a great job at explaining the possible origins of them as have several others in this thread. (...) The albatross which is the oldest living (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Then take it as established that I imply no insult by my use of the shortened form. (...) Then you're accepting that color preference is NOT outside the realm of scientific inquiry? In addition, you have yet to apply that Razor in any post (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Quoteth James "We can certainly concieve of things that are not addressable by science; it is not such a leap of logic to conceed that they may exist. God is one such..." Things that are not addressable by science--that they may exist? Did I (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I don't see where James stated anything like the above interpretation of his statement. Yes, you can believe in green fairies. No, science cannot disprove the existence of the green fairies (there is a reason for that, BTW). These two things (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) See? This is why I only skim your replies... Bruce is talking about a debate technique called an "emotional appeal" -- usually this takes the form of something that stirs the emotions of a reader or listener but that also tends to lack a (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes: <snip> (...) Love to read it, and I'll get to it. (...) Thank you for making my point clear--emotions have nothing to do with science, and I never wanted to infer, allude, or say they ever (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Actually, the french expression *has* that idiomatic meaning associated with it. The literal translation is correct, but in some contexts - such as this one - the other meaning will apply. (...) J'ai jeté l'os, maintenant c'est à toi de te (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) And way too many people are following Dubya on, well, not exactly the same road, but a road of happily trampling the rights and freedoms of everyone. You and I are not going along willingly, but a whole bunch of folks are going along, not just (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) The book is speaking about what part of your brain you use to execute art, not your relative liberal or conservative thinking. Read the book and you'll understand. (...) What is this "it" are you talking about? An emotional appeal? Yes, it (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) And to think I grew up in a bi-lingual country (english/french)! Thanks! It's like the dutch saying (and the spelling will be completely wring here...) 'Ich Vait het neet' which means I know it not... Somebody throw me a frikkin' booone here! (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) K, this one made me laugh out loud. That would be something to see (but probably still have a high 'Ick" factor). Again, something that others can do, but I probably would *ahem* abstain... Is like the new law in Ontario which states that (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Yeah, this is a discussion for hotheads like me! (...) Yes, I agree. I think it sums it up good for me. (...) Really? Science can say a bunch of molecules in the brain releasing pheremones, or 'happy chemicals' is the whole justification why I (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Skin heads feel better if there are no coloured people around. 'If it feels good, just do it' is *not* a grande philosophy. I'm debating in this thread now because I enjoy it--the second I stop enjoying it is the second I'm outta here, but (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) Actually, I didn't. I said that I "bet" that you would feel differently if things had been different. (...) That would be fine with me. But I think the "ickyness" that we feel when considering our parents having sex is based on having sex be (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) It was a misattirbution by Dave! It was I who remarked. Chris (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) You're thinking of the late 1920s... by 1939 the German people were pretty well off again with a fairly stable currency. Unfortunately that prosperity was built on theft via a military dictatorship that happily trampled the rights of everyone. (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, James Brown writes: <snip> (...) Thanks. That's *exactly* my point--they *may* exist is even better for me to accept than they *do* or *do not* exist. Dave K. (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) God. And to explain that, denies Him. That's *my* faith speaking. Does that make me 'less than' you 'cause I believe and you don't? (...) In principal[sic], God's universe is being explained right now via science. So again, I have no problem (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) You forgot to mention vasectomies, which are the "best" of the above, IMO, because one man can impregnate 100s of women, but not the reverse ;-) (i.e., 1 man and 10 women can easily result in 10 or more babies within a year, but 10 men and 1 (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) You can have whatever belief you like. It's when you want ME to believe that you have to play by my rules. And if you're forcing your morality on me (not you, David K, but the generic you) meaning you want me to believe in a christian god... (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I'm sorry to keep harping on this point, but it is really central to your approach to the entire debate. I believe the literal translation is "I don't know what" (thanks, Dr. Evil!) which is *fundamentally* different from "it cannot possibly (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) I was indeed being facetious, but I can see the issue you're addressing. I note that you're already putting a spin on it that presupposes your view to be right and mine to be wrong; specifically, you are saying that your favorable emotional (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Take your calm and polite posting elsewhere, you wet blanket! But your clarification makes sense--if that's what Dave K thinks then I'd be gratified to have it confirmed. Anyway, here's how the assertion might be phrased: Science is our most (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes, or quotes: (...) I have to admit that this statement must be true. At the same time, and as someone else has pointed out, science is always refining itself and finding new frontiers. So not being (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Not only do I think "if it feels good, do it" is a grand philosophy, I think it's the only philosophy. It's the one that we all follow every day, every time we make any kind of decision. You make the assumption that it must be short-sighted, (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) But actually, there are any number of mathematical infinities and they aren't all equally infinite. The number of real numbers between zero and one is infinite, and yet it is half that between negative one and one. An infinity can be operated (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) <huge honkin' snip> I suspect that the idea Dave is trying to get across is that some people promote science and scientific thought as the be-all and end-all of possible knowledge. These people are in their way as close-minded as the extremely (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Dave--you do indeed make this point time and time again, but you haven't yet backed it up in any comprehensible fashion. Can you explain something that we can verify as part of the universe that can't in principal be explained by (or as Chris (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Love is limitless, 'cause, for me it comes from a limitless God, but that's neither here nor there. If it feels good, do it, is a claim of moral reletivism. I know that it's too simplistic, so lets dispense with that 'cause I think we all (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) And let me mention that a spider web is, to me, quite the piece of art as well. Leftist thinking or Rightist thinking does not an artist make, nor intelligence or stupidity a defining factor for art, or for that matter, even *human*. I find (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) I'm not sure what degree of humor is intended by either of you, but I've heard that before and bet you're both wrong. If you had been raised seeing sexual expression of your parents love as a normal event, you would not be squicked by the (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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I'm continuting to try to focus us down on this conversation to a relatively few points since we're getting crazy in our post lengths. (...) So the short answer is "yes," right? You do agree with me. Since our senses are physical, anything that can (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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David, I get your stance on the commandment now. They aren't actually laws that God passed down about how to live your life. They're just good ideas. I'm pretty sure that's not how most Christians would characterize them, but that's really neither (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) A point wnderfully articulated in book 1 of the 5 book Trilogy, The Hitch Hikers Guide the the Galaxy, in reference to Zaphod Beeblebrox, the then president of the universe. (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) Oh I so agree with you. Parents... sex... Ick!!! Dave K (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The quest for knowledge will just dissipate when we get there? A fundamental human significance--the pursuit of learning--will promptly poof when all that science can teach us is known? Yes it is a Good Thing (tm). I have said so before, and I (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Kadinsky? Anyway, read Dr. Betty Edwards "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" (I believe there is a new edition "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain"). She uses numerous techniques for teaching drawing that in fact had been (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) <snip> < Admittedly, (...) It seems to be a fundemental flaw in human nature that the type of personality required to reach a position of power is exactly the type of personality that you do not want that person to have Lester (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I would be inclined to rephrase that as "So many people in positions of power use that power to..." I don't think that Christians, professed or otherwise are alone in abusing positions of power to set their world view on people; the Taliban (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) During my teen years there would have been no greater incentive NOT to have sex than to have to watch my parents going at it. Dave! (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) If every christian really believed this, and acted in accordance with it, I'd have no beef with christians and christianity. But they don't. So many professed christians in positions of power use that power to enforce their morals on others (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) This reminds me of that old George Carlin skit, when he related the story of him and his buddies trying to trip up their Padre, 'Um Fathah, if we missed holy communion, but we were on an airplane and crossed the international dateline, but we (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Anything in the physical world can be investigated by the scientific method. Art maybe made of physical properties such as clay, rock, dyes(paint) on canvas, whatever. However, most artists say they were 'inspired', whether by a muse or (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) Except those passed from mother to child, like HIV, right? And those with other transmision vectors right? And anyway, let's imagine that everyone on earth got an authoritative bill of health and a list of their transmissible infections was (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I dunno about you but I'd prefer something a little better than 60-70% accurate! (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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This is too long so I'm snipping at will. I have taken great pains to make sure nothing is responded too out of context. (...) What when? Accepting for the moment, that the universe is actually finite, so what? So if we manage to hang on until we (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) And far too much that's not addressed, such as: What if my neighbor's wife covets me? What if I covet my neighbor's daughter? What if I covet my own daughter? What if I covet my sister? What if I covet my neighbor? What if the only way to keep (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) OK David, I wasn't trying to wriggle away from your point. And maybe I'm just slow, but I really don't get the impeccable logic that you're presenting. Let's focus on this one really small idea for a bit. What is it that to your way of (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Hmm, I don't think so. My understanding is that most of the "harm" modern Wiccan philosophy means to address is emotional and spiritual in nature, rather than physical, although I'll admit that I haven't made an in-depth study of it. (...) (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Well, I think you are stressing the word "harm" a bit here. Everyone knows it takes two to tango, but only one to stop the dance. Them's the breaks... I'll take this opportunity to quote Mr. Crowley: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) Just because you say it is don't make the buttercups shine. I know what I said and I stand by it. I am on *record* of supporting same sex marriages. I don't care if you want a harem--gov't should *not* legislate morality. I know loving and (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) I already said there are "no other stakeholders". If one of the participants has an STD, there are other stakeholders. Nice try though. (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) This is *not* a discussion on the merits of science. I have stated time and time again that I *love* science and what it does (for the most bit--velcro--too much noise!) One side of this discussion esteems science to be the *only* factor for (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: tolerant morals are a blueprint to disaster (but I don't force a change)
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(...) ...except in a very esotaric sense that taking action to prevent harmful diseases is life-affirming. <GD&R> :) James (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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