Shopping : 840


Marketplace / Shopping / 840

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Tony Priestman

On Fri, 8 Oct 1999, Frank Filz (<37FDD0C1.1B37@mind...ring.com>) wrote at 11:08:49 (...) I've pointed this out to them several times. It's really refreshing to deal with a shop which isn't just in it to screw as much out of everyone as possible. The (...) (25 years ago, 8-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.trains)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Simon Robinson

That is really good of them. But what would be nice in that case would be if they could be persuaded - when they know they've got a rare old set that is in heavy demand - to restrict the numbers of the set that they will sell to any one person, in (...) (25 years ago, 9-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Nah, too much trouble. I know *I* wouldn't bother doing that if I were a retailer. The point is to sell your stock on hand and make a profit. If Larry or anyone else wanted to artificially limit the number they would sell to people, fine, or (...) (25 years ago, 9-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Simon Robinson

(...) I'd like to think that you'd regard doing business as a bit more than that. There's two sides of it: A. Making a profit, and B. Providing a good service to your customers. Both are important. Selling all your stock no matter who to may be the (...) (25 years ago, 9-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Walsh

Simon Robinson wrote in message ... [ ... snipped ... ] (...) you suggest with both Halloween Buckets and Star Wars LEGO sets. The limit was two per person. I don't know how they enforced it but there was a sign in the Star Wars aisle stating that (...) (25 years ago, 9-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) And in many cases this is an almost completely empty gesture meant to stop the obvious scalping (or the non-persistant scalping) and the whining of parents who didn't make it to the store on time to get the coolest new thing their kids must (...) (25 years ago, 9-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Jasper Janssen

(...) You know, you don't have a gods-given right to purchase DVDs on the cheap. Just thought I'd mention that. Jasper (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Well, any rights I do have weren't given to me by any god, God, goddess, or pink elephant. Thought I'd mention that. (...) I'll address this more fully in response to Larry's post, which, while wrong, was a bit more thought-out than this one. (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Jasper Janssen

(...) You know, he's saying exactly the same thing I thought, and then figured you'd be smart enough to infer from the smart-arse reply. Guess not. I'll explain more fully: You don't have _any_ right to a _promotion_ cheap DVD, other than what the (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Tony Priestman

Folks, I don't think this belongs in loc.uk any more. On Thu, 11 Nov 1999, Jasper Janssen (<383bacc7.242438643...gnet.com>) wrote at 11:50:50 (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Wow, thanks. (...) You're certainly right about that. (...) Well, I think that's debatable in general, and ridiculous with respect to me and my household. I haven't paid full price for any of the 50 or so DVDs I own. Heck, I haven't paid half (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Just nitpicking here but the amount the retailer nets as profit may be slightly more, or slightly less. It depends on a number of factors such as what the cost to take an order is, the cost to fulfill an order, how much less one box costs than (...) (25 years ago, 12-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —John DiRienzo

Mike Stanley wrote in message ... (...) This reminds me of when KBKids.com had the X-wings for half price because of some pricing error. I ordered one, and nearly had a friend order another one because it was such a "good deal". But when it arrived, (...) (25 years ago, 12-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Jasper Janssen

(...) Well, if you want to get rid of it.. Jasper (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Naji Norder

(...) Mike, I certainly don't disagree with you. I have "bent" purchase resrictions myself. (Marcia and I both bought Voodoo3s with the mail-in rebate; I used my parent's address.) However, I think that the fact that the "end result is the same" is (...) (25 years ago, 12-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Actually, my wife and I do maintain separate DVD collections. She has the movies she likes, I have the movies I like. My collection is a great deal larger than hers, but then again, she's not into movies like me in the sense that she doesn't (...) (25 years ago, 13-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Jasper Janssen

(...) Yeah well, you jibe at me, I jibe back. Can't help it. (...) Yes, they should. (...) It'd still be ok then. (...) The end result is the same, though. Therefore, in my opinion at least, it is wrong. (...) Exactly. (...) A bit less, actually. (...) (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Tom Stangl

<slrn82mo7i.75t.cjc@...s.utk.edu> <FL3EHw.BM9@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit However, Mike has noted before that his and his wife's choices in movies are quite different, so they might as well (...) (25 years ago, 12-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Yup. I like (and may soon buy) Horror movies - she can't watch them AT ALL. I also like other really violent mobster movies - she doesn't. About the only place we intersect fully movie-wise is Sci-Fi. She likes Musicals for Pete's sake. Ught. (...) (25 years ago, 13-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Naji Norder

Then I see nothing wrong at all - or at least no more wrong than our voodoo3 purchase. My wife and I both maintain our own computers, and we both happened to need video cards at the same time. Naji (...) quite (...) my (...) the (...) the (...) (...) (25 years ago, 16-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Larry Pieniazek

(...) I THINK he meant me, and I missed it the first time (1). Anyway... <bzzt> It's wrong. You're cheating the organization when you use different shipping addresses to make it look like you're not in the same household. Thanks for playing, though. (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

One item per... (was: Blue Hopper Car Mania) —Paul Sinasohn

(...) However, in your dotage you are forgetting to use the spell check functionality of your e-mail software, if any. :-) Seriously, I have to disagree with you, Larry, on the "one per household" item referenced above. If I ship to my work address, (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: One item per... (was: Blue Hopper Car Mania) —Larry Pieniazek

(...) just nitpicking here, but c/forgetting/choosing not/, ok? I don't need a spell checker. I don't make misteaks. How many times to I have to tell you people that? I may have to make it my tagline (1). 1 - as if it wasn't already. (25 years ago, 12-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Troy Cefaratti

(...) While I agree that cheating the company when you are actually a family is wrong, I also think that the method of limiting something to one per address is also wrong as well. If you are married, even if you have seperate paychecks and seperate (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Nah, I don't see it being any different. It's a stupid rule either way. The fact that my wife and I are married makes us no less separate consumers than Bob and his roommate Phil. A stupid rule, but one I choose to accept, mostly. (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Ben Roller

(...) I pay $28 per year to keep a PO Box on campus at my college even though I no longer live on campus for this reason. We get all of the bills at home, but since both I and my roommate are AFOL with separate collections, the LEGO gets shipped to (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Lot's of places won't ship to PO Boxes, though, right? I wonder ... what would people who think using a work address as a shipping address would think if say I had a job that required me to travel most of the time, being in another city for (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Ben Roller

(...) Well, sort of. Ours is technically not a Post Office as the USPS defines a Post Office (sort of like the whole space vs. Space thing). It's the same as a mail room at a large business and they can also accept UPS and Fed Ex. They sign for our (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Frank Filz

(...) The mail box place I used when I first came down to North Carolina and was living in a hotel for a few days, set up the addresses as "suite 110". (...) Wow, that's a stupid way to limit things... I'm pretty sure that some of the vanity domains (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Yup. Most places that will host your domain will also forward mail to any address at that domain to your main account. I use a different e-mail address for each online store I order from and for various other things. That way I can more easily (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Jasper Janssen

(...) My unlimited email addresses scheme: vi /etc/alias;newaliases Jasper (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Ok, I THINK you're responding to something else I wrote above that, maybe me saying Rachael and I could use our different work addresses as shipping addresses to get around a one per household deal. Certainly you're not saying that if I get in (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Larry Pieniazek

The fact that a rule is stupid or even that it costs the company sales when it is adhered to is irrelevant. If the company promulgates a rule and makes it a part of the implied contract between you and they, you are bound to abide by it or be in (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Jasper Janssen

(...) Intewrestingly, a vast majority of IP protected works do Not allow resale (without prior written consent from the publisher). From my copy of Asimov's Foundation: "This book is sold subject to the condition that it shall not, by way of trade (...) (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Oooh, good catch. So that means all those used book stores are technically fencing goods obtained illegally (because the sellers weren't allowed to.) How did I miss that one? I used to shop at used book stores all the time back when I was (...) (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) So the used bookstore I bought my copy from (and the person who sold it to the store, I assume) were violating the terms of that "contract" ? Cute. Hardly enforcable, but cute. (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) You mean you don't shop at used book stores now that you aren't poor? Wow, I can't imagine, no matter how much money I have, ever not shopping at used book stores. Not that I don't buy new books (mostly off the net now) all the time as well (...) (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Oh, I'm still poor, just not as poor as I was before. I WOULD shop at used book stores if I had the time. But it takes more time per title acquired than buying new. I STILL shop at used CD stores. (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Ah, I understand. I picked up my copy of the IEAK 5 resource kit locally even though I knew I could get it for 25% less online, but I needed it sooner rather than later. Not the same maybe, but I've also bought things at a store knowing I (...) (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Frank Filz

(...) Wow! I've never seen something like that. I guess you need to keep the book in a lock box (you would be in trouble if a thief stole the book since you have allowed it to circulate without the publisher's prior consent). I wonder if this (...) (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Doug Finney

(...) Yep, sort of like all those "Promotional Use Only" CDs and LPs floating around in used bins the world over that "legally" remain the property of the record companies and can't be resold. Doug (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Will Middelaer

(...) Of course, as far as a book that a publisher sells, this is entirely unenforcable to keep you from re-selling the book, at least in the United States thanks to the doctrine of "first sale". The relevant part of title 17 US CODE 109 (a) states: (...) (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Crosspost Spamming (Was: Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania...) —Richard Franks

Disclaimer: These views are my own and not necessarily those of market.shopping or loc.uk, they are also not directed towards any individuals - the message I'm responding to is just the latest! It is just a *teansy* bit irratating that there have (...) (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Charles Eric McCarthy

(...) I may be in breeches, but don't pour any beer, small or otherwise, in them. :-) On a serious note, if the company only wants to mail one per address, then getting one sent to every address you know of *is* following the rules and is not a (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote: (sorry for not removing .uk before now) (...) I agree. I just see the end result as being no different than if I had one shipped to work. But that's the funny thing about morals - we bend ourselves around (...) (25 years ago, 11-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Larry Pieniazek

(...) I have no idea. I'd happily split hairs with you on this but we've gone below the power of my scope to resolve, hairsizewise... :-) (25 years ago, 12-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —James Brown

(...) You mean you can't come to a resolution, or are you simply not focused enough? James (URL) (25 years ago, 12-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.pun)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Jasper Janssen

(...) Wouldn't this depend on the type of roommate situation? I'd say, if the only thing they have in common is the address, than sure, separate households. If they have a private room in the house, but share living quarters, then they're not. (...) (25 years ago, 17-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —John Neal

<slrn82mot5.75t.cjc@...s.utk.edu> <382B8EE5.742C8EB@voyager.net> <FL2IBt.4FA@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Yes;) -John (...) (25 years ago, 12-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.pun)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —John DiRienzo

I have to side with Larry (and Mike, too I guess). I am sure companies use these limits (one per person/per household) to maximize the effectiveness of their special deal. They are within their rights to make up such rules, and you are within your (...) (25 years ago, 12-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Richard Franks

(URL) agree with Tony, I don't think this belongs in loc.uk anymore folks. Richard (25 years ago, 13-Nov-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Sorry, I don't demand all this touch-feely crap from the businesses I deal with. I want to call them up, buy whatever they are selling at whatever price they're asking for it, and not be bothered with, "uh, let us check our list to make sure (...) (25 years ago, 9-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Tony Priestman

On Sat, 9 Oct 1999, Simon Robinson (<FJBD82.DyF@lugnet.com>) wrote at 02:21:38 (...) I agree, but they don't know that sort of thing until someone tells them. I couldn't believe it when they said that 250 were going to America just for 2 orders. (...) (25 years ago, 9-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Simon Robinson

(...) Ha ha. Thanks for your support - though I don't think you're going to endear yourself to many Americans with comments like that. If what you say is true then I find that very sad. But what concerns me is that so many sets went to just two (...) (25 years ago, 9-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) I guess I've missed it or not paid attention - but what exactly was the cost per set (in dollars or pounds)? I know shipping has to be figured in at some point, but is somewhat offset by us not having to pay your ridiculous VAT. (25 years ago, 9-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Simon Robinson

(...) The sets retailed at £8.99 each - Which works out at roughly $14. If you knock VAT off that I make it about $12. I guess someone in the US would have to confirm whether that is about what they actually paid. (...) Simon (URL) (25 years ago, 10-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Not a bad deal. If I weren't covered up in sets to break up for my own projects and for auction I might have picked up a few as trade material. At this point I don't have the shelf space to buy sets just to turn around and sell them, at any (...) (25 years ago, 10-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Walsh

Simon Robinson wrote in message ... [ ... snipped ...] (...) [ ... snipped ... ] To get them to the US they cost £7.65 (about $12.50) plus shipping. Shipping was a little over £4.00 each on my order so the total cost to buy them and ship them to (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Tom Stangl

(...) Ah, but BB isn't owned by Lego, or they'd only be selling to Brits. I can't buy from Canada S@H, or any other S@H service BUT the US service, so you've got nothing to complain about. (...) Oh, quit your whining! From what I gather, you live in (...) (25 years ago, 9-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Simon Robinson

Tom, next time you post a response to something I write, it might be an idea if you try READING the message you're replying to BEFORE you put your post in. If you read mine a bit more carefully you might notice that I was actually defending the (...) (25 years ago, 9-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Maybe. But you ARE whining. (25 years ago, 9-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Simon Robinson

(...) Am I? I had a look back through my posting that this is (I think) about. In it I remarked that I was glad for the people who'd been able to benefit from BB by buying blue hopper cars (implying: no matter which country they were from). I (...) (25 years ago, 10-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Mike Stanley

(...) Sure, I could. But you're already convinced otherwise, so why bother? Maybe I'd agree more with you on the "Busy Bee and other stores should limit the numbers of sets sold to any one person" issue if I were more attached to the item in (...) (25 years ago, 10-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Tom Stangl

OK, fine, next time I won't just reply to one particular posting when replying about the general feel of your posts. After reading several of your complaints, I'd had enough. It's really none of YOUR or MY or anyone's else's business how BusyBee (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Simon Denscombe

(...) Wrong - these hopper cars haven't been 'available' since July - when those 2 ordered theirs - they were the only one who know about them at that time. I've also ordered a whopping 10 as well. (25 years ago, 10-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Tom Stangl

Then there have been multiple batches at BB. I know of someone that ordered some in July. I ordered mine in October. Quite a spread there. (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Larry Pieniazek

(...) I THINK there was only one batch. I first heard about them from a reputable source in August, at which time the order to Lego hadn't yet been placed by Busy Bee. (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Simon Denscombe

(...) Correct, there's been only ONE batch of blue hoppers - that was all 300 at once. There are multiple batches of all the other stuff like 1831 Maersk Trucks, etc. Different items in each batch. What happened is that Busy-Bee placed their order (...) (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Michael Huffman

(...) If they're made out of LEGO, does it matter if we send helicopter gunships? :) (25 years ago, 9-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Tony Priestman

On Sat, 9 Oct 1999, Michael Huffman (<37FF7B2F.180036CF@...ring.com>) wrote at 17:28:15 (...) Good point. You don't have shooting cannons, do you ;-) (25 years ago, 10-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)

Re: Blue Hopper Car Mania... —Steve Bliss

(...) No, but we have the Top Secret Millennium Falcon concussion missile plans. More than a match for those namby-pamby shooting cannons. Steve (25 years ago, 11-Oct-99, to lugnet.market.shopping, lugnet.loc.uk)