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(...) Tamy, I agree, and I think this is becoming a serious problem. In fact, I just learned from Joshua Delahunty tonight via a private email that he has stopped reading this group because of Jonathan. This is a quote -- with permission: JD> [...] (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I will do the following as of right now. 1. Stop asking for parts, help with parts, models, help with models and related questions (e.g. is this part in ldraw questions). 2. Start using capital letters and checking the spelling of messages 3. (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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(...) Can I make a couple other constructive suggestions?-- 6. Think more, post less. 7. Stop being rude and disrespectful to people. Messages like these: (3 URLs) have the long-term cumulative effect of everyone either despising you or ignoring (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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<Snip> (...) now. (...) Yes, his messages somehow boring and generally no point to go. BUT, he doesn't use any profanity, and made nothing against the black book. He even tries to contribute some and recently climbs some necessary steps, too, which (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) He has used profanity at least once (what I would call profanity), but that's beside the point. Just because someone hasn't broken any written rules (i.e., the Terms of Use), doesn't mean that they haven't violated tacit principles or canons (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Hi Todd, It seems like some people may be on the verge, but I don't believe anyone else has really left the group. I think they would let you know if they had as a curtesy like Joshua did. I've noticed over the past month that there haven't (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) OK, here's the analogy. Imagine that there is this magnificent glass building in a pleasant corner of town. It's ten stories tall with clear windows going up all the sides and covering all the insides. The rooms inside are all sorts of neat (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) There's no way to vote out a whole person if that person has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to create parts that pass?? Why would you not want to silence a noise at its source? I don't understand. (...) So put the burden on everyone at (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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In lugnet.cad.dev, Todd Lehman writes: Snip of what appears to be some thoughtful reflection by Jonathan (...) I want to add one here... (URL) was in reply to... (URL) post here Jonathan was totally uncalled for in my oppinion and showed a lack of (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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(...) Sometimes this is the only solution. A while back you yourself forced me to make a fix at my end for something I still believe should be fixed at the source. OK, I accepted that and I still read the newsgroups and occasionally make a lame (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) This was me. I thought I would try and give you all my feelings on what I have seen from the outside. I am an LDraw user and like to follow lugnet.cad.dev but I rarely if ever post there. I have also seen Jonathan on other groups as well and (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I did, months ago. That's one of the reasons my mirror of the L-CAD updates are usually a few days behind the main site - I don't find out about them (or anything else having to do with LDraw) until Terry e-mails me. (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Actually, he did provide a workaround on the server end. (URL) use it all the time. In fact, that is the link *I* use to access Lugnet via the web. (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I agree 100% here. Jonathan, that was completely rude, arrogant, selfish, and inconsiderate. I know Tore's situation somewhat by talking to him. HOW DARE YOU put your SELFISH desire for LDRAW PARTS you CAN'T even make properly above his (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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(...) Mike, I sympathize with you. Jonathan really t's me off too. Its sad that his rude arrogance caused you to leave. -Tim <>< (URL) timcourtne ICQ: 23951114 Rubber chickens are the best applied use of polystyrene to date. Get paid to surf the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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I don't read lugnet.cad.dev, but I still see enough annoying traffic from Jonathan. In fact, he even has made demands of me (he asked once about instructions for a set, of which I happened to have enough copies I was willing to MAIL him a copy, his (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) And use a signature??? That pisses people off too. How about ignoring peoples' constructive posts about your behavior, like this one: (URL) received no response or apparent change on your part (and took up a good 45 minutes of my busy life to (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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(...) be (...) here) (...) than (...) Yeah, but it uses frames. I hate frames. I tried the power user link but then I couldn't save any bookmarks. They all come out with the poweruser link. I suppose I could have asked for more help with the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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<Very large, but *very* respectful snip!> (...) wow! my friend Todd, you are a wordsmith... that was great J (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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Todd Lehman <lehman@javanet.com> wrote in message news:37b3f4c3.121015...net.com... (...) That (...) Todd, I think you're making this too personal. Vote against a part not a person. (...) it (...) group (...) I honestly don't know what to do here. (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I thought parts were created by people. If you vote against a person, you effectively vote against a whole collection of parts all at once, which seems to me a much more efficient way to filter out rubbish. But I should stop questioning the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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Todd Lehman <lehman@javanet.com> wrote in message news:37b46f3c.152373...net.com... (...) Any part author can tell you the reason for this. Part authoring is such a slow and sometimes painful process that the thought of excluding someone who is (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) bad, (...) [...] Very nice analogy. This is how restaurants, neighborhoods, dance/night clubs et. al. of all kinds start losing patronage and favor. It all starts with "I'll do what I want in here", which BTW can include the attitude of the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Hmm. Wow. Deep. Yeah, what Tom said. Can things be broken into levels? tasks assigned (via voluntary cooperation)? Are there sub-tasks which could be accomplished by beginners or apprentices just as well as by masters? What's that word? (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) How bout some help on rudimentary tasks on ldraw.org? There's a lot of stuff that needs to be done that is menial minimum-wage type stuff. Note: 'minimum wage' is an expression - no one's gettin paid here :) -Tim <>< (URL) timcourtne ICQ: (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Thanks Todd. The way I see it is that he has plenty of enthusiasm, but just isn't cut out for the part-designing facet of Legodom. But as the CLSotW has pointed out, there are 1,060 ways to connect 3 8-stud bricks, so there's got to be a way (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) what I was asking was not for more parts I was asking 1.If I could finish a part he had started 2.If he has submitted parts he had already made for voting 3.What set numbers used a part he had already made (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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(...) kl.net? As time permits I will ldraw as much of the castle sub theme (and then others) as possible, given the parts available to me for use. (e.g. the recent creation of the large 6090 baseplate has allowed me to ldraw that set) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I'd say not. I'm looking more for things along the lines of gathering links, making sure stuff works, making pages which are not content-critical. LDrawing sets in large volume is nice, but its not something considered 'giving someone an (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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Jonathan, you might try responding directly to that rather lengthy append using interspersed quotes instead of leaving all of it there, then not responding to any of it, or at least not very much of it. I think one thing people are on you about is (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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(...) Why not? I think that Ldrawing sets is indeed useful. But then, my perspective is that of a consumer of instructions, not a creator of them, and I certainly know that I do not have the time nor the interest to get deep into part creation. I am (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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| | 1060 ways to connect 3 bricks (was Re: i admit i was wrong)
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(...) so (...) Those 1060 connections are just considering right angle, studs up connections, though. As we all know by now, that isn't the only way to think: With 2x4 *bricks* only, you can't do much more than studs up, but you can still rotate (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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(...) LDrawing sets is useful, I'm not disagreeing. But the thing is Jonathan has stockpiled bunches and bunches of these LDrawn sets and will just submit a flood of them without editing out his own 'parts' first. I'm more concerned with adhesion to (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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Tim, You need to fix that bug in your poster SW that is not referencing quite correctly! :-) I keep having trouble finding your replies. Well, found it so here I am. To net it out, I agree with you, mostly, on this. (and I tend to think of you and (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Same here, I probably should have said that a little more clearly :) (...) That's what I meant when I said that.. if no one would have ever told me that Tim wasn't an "adult" a never would have guessed otherwise, Same with Bram, though I don't (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Yeah, I'm annoyed by it too. I quick glanced over my program's (Eudora Pro 4.2) options and couldn't see anything connected to the problem with my replies to the group. That's why I'm including your personal email address in this message, and (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Adam, I hate to beat a dead horse, but I neglected to point out perhaps the most significant flaw with the "kids at school" way of looking at this. I agree, enthusiasm is a great thing!! And it goes a *loooong* way toward fostering effective (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Sorry, but I can't snip this masterpiece. Nice anology?..No!..This is wonderful...:-) I can see your point, of course (it is not possible after reading this). Actually, I could already see it before my post, too. You are of course right, but (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Yes. I think it's time to call the question among the stalwarts and take whatever action is decided on. We're belaboring the point now. (don't ask me for my opinion, BTW, I'm not a cad stalwart, so don't count for what cad.dev decides...) (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Wax on, wax off. <sorry> (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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QOTD? (...) ;John (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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(...) <puffs his chest out with pride> ;) (...) I couldn't agree more. One, I'm definitely not a parent :) and Two, I'm a teenager and am annoyed to death of (little) kids (c'mon, we've all been there). Now obviously, Jonathan isn't a *little* kid. (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) i am from austraila and i am 18 and studying at university. (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Dear Jonathan; You *must* really want to be a part of this group to keep posting, but you really should use the shift key. I'm not sure what your plans are, but your actions concern me and are driving a large portion of this group's active (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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The Doctor What wrote: <snip> Not to be terse, but the subject says it all. I've not seen you around here before recently, so in case no one's said it yet, welcome to LUGNET, and nice job on the advice. Thanks. (we all could (yes, even me, otherwise (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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(...) Yes, I concur, but I have a question for you, Doc. Did you used to play second base for Bud Abbott?;-) All seriousness aside, this isn't RTL, and although a few folks here are known by nicknames, they have been around and everyone *knows* (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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(...) Just turn on "view all headers" in Netscape or other modern newsreader(1) and you will see. X-Real-Life-Name: Christian Holtje So no, he's not in violation of norms or rules, settle down, cobber. PS, this probably should be followed up in (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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(...) His post _did_ have his real name in it: Christian Holtje. Perhaps your news reader didn't display the proper identity field. (I think there was a similar discussion several months ago. The name is hidded in the x-reallife-name field or (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Naji- "Who's on first. What's on second. I don't know is on third" "That's what I'm trying to find out, the man on first." "Who" "The man on first" "Who" "The man playing first base" "That's the man's name" "Whose name" "That's right" "Look, (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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(...) I did not know that part about "view all headers":-) Learn something new every day! So now I can say, "Welcome, Christian!":-) (...) Hey, I got your hardware right here, pal;-) Actually, I *did* buy the Gateway P3 450 mz blah blah blah. (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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(...) I believe I am abiding by the letter, if not the spirit. If you notice, the mail list (and I believe the news group) headers show who I "really" am: X-Real-Life-Name: Christian Holtje In addition, the web list is even more explicit: From: The (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.cad.dev)
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(...) <snipped good "Dear Jon" letter> Many good points, said in a good way. Unfortunately, I think it's all a bit too late. All these points have been mentioned before by several folks for awhile now. But thanks for saying them anyway. And welcome (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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(...) Time for Wopner. Christopher (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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