Subject:
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Re: legos biggest mistake is...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:10:30 GMT
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Viewed:
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1063 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Adam Hoekwater writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, James Simpson writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Adam Hoekwater writes:
> > > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Gary Istok writes:
> > > > Probably the American prudishness to nudity is what makes our country the
> > > > world's leader in rapes and sex crimes.
> > > >
> > > > Gary Istok
> > >
> > > Gary,
> > > I think it's because America is a cesspool of social degeneration.
> > > Doesn't Japan hold the same prudishness?
> > > Are they number two in sex crimes?
> > >
> > > -Adam
> >
> > And America is a prudish country how? Granted, one only hears suggestive
> > nuances on network TV, but how many households have cable? How many people
> > have
> > access to pornography? Virtually all of the people that I have known who have
> > had a problem with pornography initially found it via their fathers. The fact
> > of the matter is that kids have access to all manner of sexual messages
> > despite our lamentable "American prudishness." Oh, did I forget the internet?
> > America
> > is so rampant with sex crimes because we allow our children to be barraged
> > with
> > sexual messages, and then we give them neither the instruction nor the support
> > in terms of dealing with their sexuality.
>
> I think this is an excellent point, but I think there is a difference between
> the sexual messages that American kids experience, and the ones that European
> cultures do. You use the word 'pornography', which I interpret as material
> that is produced for one purpose, to evoke one emotion from people, lust.
> American cable programming and nude magazines and websites do just that. But
> European television programs will show nudity, but somehow, in a way that
> Americans don't understand from our point of reference, not pornographically.
> Almost like it's good clean fun. Or perhaps naughty fun. As an American, I
> can't explain it because I don't really get it. But from what I've seen of
> their TV programs, it just doesn't seem the same. It's not like 'watch these
> gorgeous people have hot sex' or 'imagine yourself with this person', it's
> almost more like 'hey, you're naked, isn't that embarrassing!' or 'this guy is
> nude on TV, isn't that funny?'. I don't know if anyone else knows what I'm
> getting at, or if I'm getting at anything at all, that's just my
> interpretation.
I mostly agree with you on this point. Customs regarding modesty can genuinely
differ across cultures, and be influenced by climate, history, etc. A topless
woman can be attired just as modestly, given the right circumstances, as another
woman who is covered head to toe. The great modifier is whether or not a person
is flaunting reasonable social sensibilities simply in the name of shock value.
I agree with you that the British (from what I've seen on the BBC as well as
PBS) tend to approach nudity and sexuality with sort of a school-boy mentality;
most of the comedies seem to be very self-conscious - IMO they all seem to
snicker at how naughty they are being. So, when a kid in the UK sees nudity in
the press they may not get the same message as a kid in the US, but, again, from
what I've seen, the nudity issue in Britain seems to be a self-conscious
exercise in stretching the norms of polite behavior; it never comes across that
there is a great awareness of the human body and an unconcerned acceptance of
it; rather, they all seem to show a real awareness for issues of politeness and
decency, and a very strong awareness of how these issues are being stretched.
My whole point is that I feel that the "Enlightened Europeans" argument is used
as an (exceptionally weak) excuse to convince our society to further divorce
sexuality from the moral spheres of human behavior. The disease, drug
addiction, broken hearts, hopelessness, and loneliness of the Amsterdam
whorehouses are sufficient indictment against that "enlightened" system that
abandons sexual restraint in society.
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: legos biggest mistake is...
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| (...) is used (...) divorce (...) Maybe it isn't... but "moral spheres" are very _personal_ spheres. Your spheres might be differently shaped than mine. It's best if we all keep our spheres to ourselves. ~Mark (24 years ago, 21-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: legos biggest mistake is...
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| (...) I think this is an excellent point, but I think there is a difference between the sexual messages that American kids experience, and the ones that European cultures do. You use the word 'pornography', which I interpret as material that is (...) (24 years ago, 21-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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