 | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —David Eaton
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| | | (...) 1st off, that's not what she said. She said BL needs Lar MORE THAN Lar needs BL. If, on a scale from 1 to 10, Lar needs BL at a 1, then the implication is that BL needs Larry at *least* 1, but probably more. She's not saying that BL will (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Mark Papenfuss
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| | | | (...) ok, so take off the 'so bad' ;) But still, I do not see WHY Bricklink NEEDS Larry. And am more than curious as to why she thinks it does need him - in any way in any amount. (...) No, I am expressing an opinion, just as she did. I do not think (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Jason Spears
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| | | | | (...) If he doesn't explain himself and continues to run his business (1) like a crazed dictator than other users may worry that continued investment in BrickLink is not going to yeild returns. Examples - I've been pondering re-opening my Bricklink (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | (...) I have a lot of respect for Dan and what he does at BL, to call him a "crazed dictator" is silly. (...) ...because Dan saw a simple idea which he invested his time and cash in. Anyone else could have done the same (e.g Todd), but only Dan (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Dan deserves quite a bit of thanks for what he's done. However, unlike many sites, BL was created as a business venture rather than a totally benevolent effort. People pay Dan to list their wares, they're buying a service. If Dan knows what's (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Even when a seller deliberately continues to break the ToS, and as a result potentially disenfranchises buyers? (...) Perhaps somebody should compete? One could argue that BL is too big now, and that a basic "sets only" or "minifig only" (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) In my whole life I have never corresponded with a more ardent proponent of the free market system than Lar, so I'm confident that Lar would assert that Bricklink is not a natural monopoly. As such, if the market will bear a second online bulk (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Mark Papenfuss
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Another flaw Tim - Dan DOES NOT see Larry as a "good-faith" anything! He proved that in not only his words, but his actions. What you think Larry is, or not is is 100% pointless! You need to understand that. The only person view that matters (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Jason Spears
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| | | | | | | | (...) Ok, that comment might have been over the top, but from my point of view, so was Dan's decision to boot Larry. (...) I'm not debating that BrickLink helped the hobby, I've certainly benefited from it's presence. As for Thanks, I thanked him (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | (...) Look at what has happened. The seller deliberately continued to break the ToS! Given that Dan has a duty to protect buyers; how else could he react? You appear to be suggesting he should have renegotiated the ToS!? Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Gregory J. Overkamp
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I think its clear to me and everyone else that if there were other names involved in this, there would be no discussion. However, as this thread goes on, there is more and more speculation, name calling, flaming, etc. going on. Since Dave and (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) **snip** We Daves know many stories, some of them true. I suspect that you probably meant Dan in this context, but on behalf of my namesakes I thank you for including us! Dave! (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —David Laswell
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) And some of them not true, but hilariously funny, nonetheless. (...) Normally I'd probably agree, but in this situation I kinda feel like I've been "included" on a field trip to the local minefield... "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | | | My post was based only on undisputed comments. Scott A (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) No -- it is not undisputed that the reason he was banned was a TOS violation. He broke it, was corrected, and made an earnest attempt to comply. After his attempt to comply he was banned without recourse. -Tim (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops. —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Can you please define what you mean by "earnest"? Are you saying his "earnest attempt" put him inside the ToS? (...) You or I would have deleted the whole of the text and shrugged the matter off. Larry tried to play it smart and it backfired. (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops. —Mark Papenfuss
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) It does not matter what Tim thinks is inside or outside the ToS. It is not his call to make. Obviously, Dan thought it was not inline with the ToS - and thats really the only view that means anything here - right? Mark P LoB (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops. —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Given that Tim wants to line Larry up for martyrdom: NO. ;) Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops. —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Mark, What are you trying to gain by the repetition of this idea? We get it. You think that we don't have a right to an opinion. I happen to disagree. If you're merely pointing out that we don't have the power to change anything over at BL, (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops. —Mark Papenfuss
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Chris - I have said countless times in the last few days in direct regards to this situation - I am not trying to tell anybody they can not have, or voice thier opinion. But when you base your opinion on false information that some people (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops. —Thomas Stangl
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I would say that it would be more productive to ask Dan to state his side of the story, rather than try to convince everyone else to shut up. The only way we will get Dan's side of the story is if *Dan speaks up*. If he does not, BL's (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops. —Mark Papenfuss
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Tom, do me a favor - copy this over, paste in in your word editor, print it up and post it above your monitor: I am not, and have not told anybody to shut up. I have not, and am not telling anybody to not have or voice their opinion. Can you (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Alan Findlay
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) The following posts shed light on this: (URL) on these, I don't believe that Larry's correction was earnest, but rather calculating. My guess (yes, it's a guess)is that it was the phrase "Until perpetual stock is implemented," that was the (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Thomas Stangl
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) And until Dan speaks up, we'll never know. Personally, *with what I currently have to go on*, Dan's reaction was overblown, and Larry's attempt to meet ToS was earnest. Only Dan can prove that wrong. -- Tom Stangl *(URL) Visual FAQ home *(URL) (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | (...) No ... he was attempting to comply with the ToS and proposed a solution when he was cut off at the knees. That's my belief having read the discussion *and* having spoken with Lar. I'll defend him based on the interactions I've observed (recent (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | (...) Yes, read his very words: "Dan informed me yesterday that I needed to remove that wording as it's a ToS violation. I responded with a suggestion for a different approach." Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Mark Papenfuss
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| | | | | | (...) "run his business like a crazed dictator" Where did you pull that from? He banned what he saw to be a problem member. That does NOT make him a crazed dictator. To even imply that is is acting like one is about as wrong as you can possibly get. (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Jason Spears
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| | | | | | (...) Well actually, if you bothered to read all the posts, instead of running around shouting from the rooftops about how great Dan is and he can make all the bad decisions he wants, then you might have seen that I recanted on that point already. (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Mark Papenfuss
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| | | | | | (...) I saw that - and I read and make sure I understand the posts before I reply. Your OTHER points did not match that statment, but I do give you credit for making that statment. And I am not saying how great I think Dan is.. I AM saying he did (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Jason Spears
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| | | | | | (...) Thank you. I'm trying to stay civil, although it's hard, some comments that some people are making, seem rather inflammitory. (Note - Trying is not always suceeding.) Clarification - I don't find your above statement inflammitory, it was other (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —David Eaton
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| | | | | (...) I'm not sure I'd say that it needs him so much as would be better off *with* him than without, particularly if 'without' means bad press. (...) You *are* expressing an opinion, but that wasn't my point there. The "the most off base comment" (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Mark Papenfuss
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| | | | | | | (...) But do you agree that the statment "The customer is always right" is a good theme to strive for, but not law? Anybody (IMHO) that thinks that that statment is true must have never worked with customers IRL. (...) Who is to say what the right (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —David Eaton
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Oh, I totally agree-- I just don't think Dan tried as hard as he should have in this case. (...) Nobody, really. If Dan thinks the "right way" is to ban everyone whose name gets drawn out of a hat, who's to say that's the "wrong way"? I think (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Thomas Stangl
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| | | | | | | | (...) Why? What is so wrong with trying to convince Dan that the action was overblown? If we all gave up an just took what was given to us, that wouldn't say much for us. -- Tom Stangl *(URL) Visual FAQ home *(URL) Visual FAQ Home (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | (...) As a buyer/seller on ebay, Amazon and Bricklink I want the admins to protect me from individuals which don't respect the ToS. If a chap on ebay has a feedback rating of "-2" as a buyer on ebay would you bid on his auctions? Scott A (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —David Eaton
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| | | | | | (...) Now that's just ridiculous. While I would understand your concern if his TOS violation was in regards to non-payment or non-shipping, let's face it, it wasn't. It was about a particular policy which hadn't been clearly enough spelled out until (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops/ —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | (...) down while (...) BL buyer (...) entirely (...) mistakes (...) to protect (...) his TOS (...) it, it (...) enough (...) No. He showed that he thought he could dictate the ToS. I want to be protected from that sort of mind-set. (...) ebay would (...) (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops/ —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) Is there even the slightest shred of evidence for this statement? (...) Are you suggesting that he should pretend contrition even though he did nothing wrong? Chris (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops/ —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | (...) Yes, his own words: "Dan informed me yesterday that I needed to remove that wording as it's a ToS violation. I responded with a suggestion for a different approach." Later: "...I responded rather tersely, suggesting that the implementation be (...) (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops/ —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | (...) I'm not sure from your writing if you simply don't know what dictate means or if there is some less transparent explanation for your mischaracterization of the events that you accurately quoted. Maybe you can shed some light on this? Chris (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops/ —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | (...) Chris, if I'm so wrong, maybe you could tell me what you think. Scott A (20 years ago, 26-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops/ —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | (...) To be fair, his response was "How about you implement bulk correctly instead? Seems a better solution to me." (according to Dan). That doesn't suggest that ToS be altered, rather that (as Lar saw it) a feature be (re-)implemented correctly. (...) (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | (...) I confirm that was the exact wording. Too terse? Yes. Refusing to abide by the ToS? No. Asking that it be altered? No. (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | (...) Do you feel that your intial listing was outside of the ToS? If not, why change it? I find it notable that neither you or Dan have posted your full e-mail exchange. I know from personal experience and the testimonials of others that you (...) (20 years ago, 26-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops/ —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | (...) I'm not clear on what the distinction is; was he not suggesting a change in the way BL operates rather than bring his listing within the ToS? Does that not imply that he wanted the ToS changed? Or do you mean he wanted the wording to remain (...) (20 years ago, 26-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops/ —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) Does "suggesting a change" really seem to you to be the same as "dictating?" Seriously? Maybe you think it's just a matter of spin, but your first (unfounded) claim is simply incorrect (based on all the evidence I have) and your most recent (...) (20 years ago, 26-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops/ —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | (...) OK. Show me your evidence. (...) Indeed, he wanted it his way. He suggested* /dictated* / demanded* / intimated* / decreed* / commanded* / requested* / ordered* that the world should spin just the way he wanted. (*) Delete as appropriate. (...) (20 years ago, 26-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops —Neb Okla
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| | | | "Mark P" <mark@landofbricks.com> wrote in message news:I2vxt7.q1p@lugnet.com... (...) I have a real problem with businesses that like to lay down the law without providing a reasonable explanation as to why. A while back I had an issue with my ISP (...) (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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