Subject:
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Re: The Brick Testament - More Teachings of Jesus
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:49:34 GMT
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Viewed:
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4791 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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Okay, then a rationalist is safe as long as he never asks the question WRT
to the origin of the universe. Convenient.
JOHN
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As I said elsewhere in this thread there is overwhelming evidence for the
Big Bang hypothesis. I wouldn’t call that conveniently ignoring the
question, I would call that behaving like scientists and considering the
evidence at hand and what hyptheses best suit them.
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Yeah, I meant to address this elsewhere and forgot: I’m not talking about the
Big Bang theory, which is entirely within the scope of scientific scrutiny;
I’m talking about stuff that set the Big Bang in motion previously to the Big
Event. That is outside the peruse of science. Don’t equate the origin of
the universe with the Big Bang theory.
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Well, that’s pretty unfair. That’s like saying we NEED an answer, and if we
can’t come up with one, creationism is correct. If you go back to 500 BC and
asked people why lightning happened, I’m sure they could come up with answers.
But just because they were the ONLY answers they were able to come up with
doesn’t make them right.
Science makes no claim (that I know of) about what happened “before” the Big
Bang because we have no way of falsifying any not-already-falsified theories
which might provide explanation.
My personal guess is that there’s no such thing as “before” the Big Bang. It
would be like me asking you “who created God?” or “have you stopped beating your
wife?” or what-have-you. The premise of the question is incorrect. But that’s
just my personal guess.
To Tim’s point (as I’m suprised that Dave! hasn’t pointed out), there actually
is NOT an overwhelming amount of evidence for the Big Bang theory. To be more
accurate, there is a severe LACK of DISPROOF for the Big Bang. The Big Bang
theory, if accurate, has lots of falsifiable consequences (not that I can even
begin to list them or know much about them). Hence, the theory is scientific
because we can set up experiments and observe the outcome. If the theory is
correct, we expect to see a particular outcome. And sure enough, that’s what
we’ve seen. If we saw a DIFFERENT outcome, it could invalidate the theory, and
we’d need to come up with a new one.
The theory of creationism is not falsifiable, therefore, not science. The best
thing you can do is posit that creatures and objects appeared *instantly*,
inferring that something outside the realm of the measurable universe was the
cause. That’s falsifiable (not that we presently have the tools to falsify it).
But stating that an intelligent being did it is NOT falsifiable. We may
*believe* it, but we can’t *disprove* it, so we can’t say with any degree of
certainty that it’s true or not.
DaveE
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: The Brick Testament - More Teachings of Jesus
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| In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Eaton wrote: --snip-- (...) --snip-- (...) I believe that many predictions of the Big Bang theory have been verified which is why I say there is an overwhelming body of evidence for it. There is admittedly far more (...) (18 years ago, 24-Oct-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | Re: The Brick Testament - More Teachings of Jesus
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| (...) Now that's unfair:-) I am NOT arguing for creationism. Science is about explaining things. All I'm saying is that what happened pre Big Bang is inexplicable. (...) Agreed. (...) Thank you. That is entirely my point. Therefore any explanation (...) (18 years ago, 24-Oct-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: The Brick Testament - More Teachings of Jesus
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| In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Timothy Gould wrote: <snip> (...) That may be. I seem to remember reading something about the topic; perhaps I can do some digging around. (...) Yeah, I meant to address this elsewhere and forgot: I'm not talking about (...) (18 years ago, 24-Oct-06, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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