Subject:
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Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.market.theory
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Date:
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Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:22:02 GMT
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Viewed:
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3039 times
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> Larry even wants to claim copyright of the design, and as a design only,
> perhaps the claim is valid. But if he intends to claim any rights to the
> whole set, bricks included, I would guess no way! This isn't like molding
> from clay or carving from wood -- its all LEGO bricks, each one says
> bloody 'LEGO' right on it! Larry also wants control of the distribution of
> the design, but don't we have ready access to an extensive LEGO instructions
> scan database? So isn't Larry's position actually hypocritical? "O, its okay
> to have LEGO's instruction scans on the internet, just not mine..." Do I have
> this right, Larry? Will your exclusive control of this design lapse at some
> future point so that we can view it on Kevin Loch's server, or what?
Kevin's policy is 2 years -after- the set is no longer a current catalog item.
In other words, 2 years after Larry -stops producing- the hopper, Kevin might
archive the instructions. No sooner than that, and I believe Kevin has talked
to TLG about the archive, and has tact permission to have the images as long as
he follows that guidline, with the exception of catalogs
> While LEGO had no intention of cooperating with us, I could see Larry's
> auction taking place and not worried about it one bit -- a flash in the pan,
> and we all would have known it. Suddenly LEGO DOES contact us, and its
> suddenly as if we are on our ABSOLUTELY WORST collective behavior. Some of
> you are too intelligent for your own, or our -- AFOL, good! I truly believe
> that we are coming off as total yahoos, without any sensitivity to LEGO's own
> interests. They will not deal with us from a position of taking a loss, only
> from one in which they will clearly profit -- then they, and only they, will
> make the profits, and we will be able to get the bricks to realize our
> building ambitions. Perhaps a third party distribution center will be set up
They will profit regardless. If Larry purchases 62 of sets A,B and C, and the
spare parts needed to build the set do you think TLG has not earned a profit on
him?
> Moreover, we exist as an online community largely because LEGO left gaps in
> its market...
>
> ...We had to go to one another to get the stuff we wanted...
> ...We had to deal overseas...
> ...We had to make deals that went bad...
> ...We bid in set auctions...
> ...We bid in parts auctions...
> ...We lost stuff in the mail...
> ...Huge delays existed for receiving stuff from individual sellers...
>
> But if LEGO does indeed begin to fill in the holes in the market they created,
> this will ALL likely end. And I hope that LEGO's plans are comprehensive
> enough to make it so, and I REALLY mean that too! Then we will be here (on
> Lugnet) mostly to exchange building ideas -- and thats about it! Maybe those
> plans could be sold without stepping on LEGO's toes -- I am not sure about the
> whole thing yet.
>
> Well, that's bloody great! You boycott it -- I just want to build. Thanks
> for nothing! I suspect that they will at least stipulate that we are not
> allowed to sell the bricks as sets. Isn't that what they do? Isn't that their
> historically primary business?
(I snipped myself out)
> Here I hope James is wrong on both counts. What good would it do to buy bulk
> and then pay a premium for it? Or are you suggesting a price point somewhere
> in between what it would cost to buy the many sets necessary for the number of
> said parts desired and a bucket price? Once the parts are available in bulk,
> they will lose all rarity -- and thusly individual pieces will lose value.
> Its not as though we couldn't still just part out the sets, after all. How
> much of a "premium" are you envisioning?
I was meaning on things like bulk gray plates. I really cannot see L@D selling
plates cheaper than you could get from splitting sets. Or even just normal 1x
and 2x bricks in red/yellow/white/black/blue.
I'm meaning more on the lines: that I would expect that a very sharp auctioneer
could probably beat the prices on the more common pieces.
For instance,
I would expect that train windows price will fall like a rock (It's going to
this year anyway :)
But, I don't expect the price of 1x4 white bricks to be cheaper for L@D than
you can get -if you look around and bid smart- in auction.
For Instance, with the train windows, earlier this year there was a floating of
a consortium that was looking into getting train windows (plus other parts).
The estimated cost was about $1 each window/glass. At that price, I would have
bought 100-200 train windows. The current (last major auctions prior to 2K
catalog) price was $4.50 and up. I won't buy them at that price.
Or, even looking at the buckets that surrond me here in my study. The Purple
35th buckets cost me on average about $15 US each, or about 1.25 cents a piece.
Do you really think that L@D could come close to that price doing costom runs?
I don't. I would expect to pay around .10 a piece from L@D. That leaves a
margin of .0875 a brick for someone who is running a auction...a very healthy
margin, on sales of say 10 000 (plus, most of us are not making our living on
lego sales!)
> My message to LEGO is that there is a secondary market whose market you could
> fulfill entirely. Bulk orders, special items orders, minifigure accessory
> packs, discontinued items packs, the rerelease of old set designs. Would any
> sane person really pay $300 USD or more for an original Guarded Inn if LEGO
> rereleased the set for $50-60 USD? I have seen more than one fool pay a lot
> of $$$ for 6067 without instructions or box -- yet, how did they know that the
> set was not just built from other spare parts? It probably was...I think
> there are four elements alone that are unique to that set (one sign, and three
> tudor walls), and if you had them, you could fill in the rest with newer
stuff.
Here I will reccomend something to L@D. Don't sell the same set. Sell a
'identical' set with different colors. Will this change the value of the
'collectors sets?' No, it will not. I don't think it is fair to people to
reintroduce old sets in the exact same colours. Look at the Retrostation for
how to do it.
>
> At this point I can only hope that we are, in fact, a small enough segment of
> LEGO's total market that they will indulge us for bulk and specialty parts
> orders just for the good PR and "word of mouth" advertising. Because after
> looking over some stuff Larry and Todd have posted on the hopper, I think we
> do represent a threat to overall profits if they should sell to us cheaply in
> bulk, or even just in bulk.
How are we a threat? What we are going to do is give them a profit, regardless
of anything else we do. do you think they are going to give us the pieces?
> Adults don't know how to just play, they want to make money while they are at
> it. And thusly I have stated our undoing as regards a relationship with
> LEGO. Its their bricks, its their product; we are the consumers of it. There
> is no reason to deal with us in bulk if all we are going to do is compete with
> them in the marketplace. They have at last come to us with their hand out in
> greeting...and we apparently don't know a good thing when we see it! Do we
> want to play or make money through bricks?
I trade more than sell for this reason. I would rather have 10 people who can
say :Yep, James is a good trader than $1 000 000 in a bank account from ripping
people off.
I cannot see L@D worrying too much about all that we can do. Larry's hopper is
probably the best example of it. I probably will end up buying/trading for
one. Why? because it is a good train design. No other reason. I haven't had
any other real dealings with Larry before this, but he has something I would
like to have, and at a afordable price (at least, for $65 US it is reasonable,
I'm not about to go be a E-bay freek and spend 665 for it either!). I would
buy any train set TLG puts out anyway. I have all of this years sets now, and
are getting a second of one of them (the station) Why? because it is a good
set for parts to allow me to make my train station (one day, I will make a
real model of Union Station in Toronto, that will take LOTS of bricks!)
I missed Emmanual's 3 wonders of the week...(damm, I was in a exam for some of
them!)
As far as I am concerned, L@D will hopefully stop some of the abuse that goes
on on E-bay. (I wish Larry had been successful in stopping the worst of
it...people at E-bay are fools for not doing something about what goes on with
newbies and Lego, it must go on for most other things as well.) L@D should
allow me and others a way to get the parts we want, at a fixed price. No, I
don't expect it to be a 'great deal' price, but I do expect it to be a fair
price.
This is a great debate topic, and it's allways fun to chat with people who
don't quite see eye to eye, but are friendly about it!
James Powell
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