Subject:
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bulk dynamics revisited
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.market.theory
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Date:
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Mon, 13 Dec 1999 06:28:54 GMT
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Viewed:
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2769 times
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In lugnet.market.theory, Richard Marchetti writes:
> [...]
> Todd Lehman also wrote:
> > BTW, we should be very careful next Summer and very clear in our
> > discussions with LEGO Direct that we desire any bulk purchase
> > arrangements to be free and clear of any strings attached which might
> > prevent someone from reselling the parts they purchase. Personally, I
> > would boycott any bulk purchasing arrangement in which the purchase
> > agreement disallowed resale.
>
> Well, that's bloody great! You boycott it -- I just want to build. Thanks
> for nothing! I suspect that they will at least stipulate that we are not
> allowed to sell the bricks as sets. Isn't that what they do? Isn't that
> their historically primary business?
I was speaking for myself only. When I say "Personally, I would boycott..."
I mean that I personally couldn't "buy into" it under such a restriction --
to agree to buy bulk under a restriction like that that wouldn't feel morally
right to me. "Boycott" may be a bit strong but it does at least carry the
emotion intended. Nevertheless, I actually have doubts that TLC would try
to put any more written restrictions on it than than they have on sets now
(none) or than they did for bulk purchases 10 years ago when they used to
offer it (none that I'm aware of).
So my point was, if there is any room for negotiation (not that I'm implying
there is) or for us to make our wishes known, I think it's only fair that we
all be 100% up-front and let TLC know that reselling is an important desire
to some people, for example Larry and his hopper cars.
Now apart from custom sets, even reselling the bulk parts in smaller
quantities is actually very important, because it's extremely likely that
the initial bulk purchasing will be "large" quantities only (I'm guessing,
of course, but it completely stands to reason). Therefore the only way to
cost-justify a large purchase for many people may be to form a buying
consortium or to buy extra and resell in smaller quantities to recover/
offset some of the costs.
> Uh huh. Thats what I think too. Sell to a builder, yes -- sell to a
> reseller, no! Why would they cut anyone else into a profit they themselves
> could realize? I just can't see it.
I have to wonder real hard whether anything like that would even be
policeable, and additionally whether the cost of policing is greater than
the (perceived) losses of not policing.
> Here I hope James is wrong on both counts. What good would it do to buy
> bulk and then pay a premium for it? [...]
I don't know about you or others, but I know that would *gladly* pay a
premium to get certain parts in bulk. Very gladly. Very very gladly.
Any premium would be far less than what I have to go through now.
I have something like 64 white 4x4x6 inverse-octagonal corridor corners that
I got from breaking up 16 copies of a large set that had 4 each. (Actually
it was more than that 'cause I sold a bunch too.) But that was waayyyy more
work than it was "worth" to me based on money & time alone.
> My message to LEGO is that there is a secondary market whose market you
> could fulfill entirely. Bulk orders, special items orders, minifigure
> accessory packs, discontinued items packs, the rerelease of old set
> designs. Would any sane person really pay $300 USD or more for an
> original Guarded Inn if LEGO rereleased the set for $50-60 USD? I have
> seen more than one fool pay a lot of $$$ for 6067 without instructions or
> box -- yet, how did they know that the set was not just built from other
> spare parts? It probably was...I think there are four elements alone
> that are unique to that set (one sign, and three tudor walls), and if you
> had them, you could fill in the rest with newer stuff.
I wonder if they ever actually fulfill it (the secondary market) entirely.
Wouldn't they have to produce all sets forever at a low cost in order to do
that? Because even if they re-release great sets like Guarded Inn for
$50-$60 USD, the old dud sets will still go for crazy amounts, maybe even
more because people would have extra money left over from not having to buy
the Guarded Inns... :)
> At this point I can only hope that we are, in fact, a small enough segment
> of LEGO's total market that they will indulge us for bulk and specialty
> parts orders just for the good PR and "word of mouth" advertising. Because
> after looking over some stuff Larry and Todd have posted on the hopper, I
> think we do represent a threat to overall profits if they should sell to us
> cheaply in bulk, or even just in bulk.
I see your point, but I have trouble seeing it in a negative light. After
all, it must cost a *lot* more for LEGO to produce and sell 100 100-piece
sets than to sell 10,000 gray 2x4 bricks to someone via a website, assuming
both operations are being run efficiently.
And if they can sell sets in stores for $x per element, but sell bulk for
$1.5x or $2x, how can they complain if it then winds up on eBay for 3x that?
No matter what happens with the parts, they still have to originate at the
LEGO factories. LEGO wins no matter what happens. They *will* sell more
parts if they allow those parts to be subsequently resold.
> On the other hand, I can see now that bulk and specialty parts ordering may
> never take place, and I'll be back to the online auctions and making parts
> requests in the appropriate newsgroups, as usual.
I think LEGO has already committed to this, haven't they? That's what Brad's
message sounded like to me, anyway. I suppose theoretically they could back
out of what they said, but why, and where would that get them?
Anyway, to make a long rant short, nothing that's being said on this whole
thread hasn't already been said 1 year ago, 2 years ago, 4 years ago. This
is old stuff. (But always fun to talk about again and again! :)
I'll bet good money that TLC has been thinking this all through for quite
some time and already understands much of how we think and what many people
want to do in the after-market.
> [...] Do we want to play or make money through bricks?
I think for many people it's not an either-or choice. Who wouldn't want to
make money doing something fun in connection with their hobby?
--Todd
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