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[FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Larry Pieniazek

I am very pleased to present what I feel to be a historic lot: (URL) first of 9 lots to be sold on SC, eBay and perhaps BRICKS is an instance of my custom hopper. Big deal, you say? True, I've sold these before. But this is historic because I (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction, lugnet.trains, lugnet.market.theory, lugnet.cad)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Larry Pieniazek

See also: (URL) Larry Pieniazek larryp@novera.com (URL) - - Web Application Integration! (URL) Lugnet(tm): (URL) ref: lar, 1/2 $$ to lugnet. NOTE: Soon to be lpieniazek@tsisoft.com :-) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Daniel Siskind

(...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Daniel Siskind

urrghh... did it again! I swear this Lugnet interface is about as Mac- unfriendly as you can get. Apologies fot the previous blank posting. OK, in light of recent postings to Lugnet.Trains, viewers may think I'm getting on Larry's arse, which is not (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Cool! I stand corrected. Did you LDraw your instructions as well? Were they listed on eBay or some other public venue? Anyway, what matters is that the time for this activity has come, not who did it first. I'm keen on discussing how best to (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Daniel Siskind

(...) My first set was only available through the online store on my web site, but it is no longer available. It came with rudimentary instructions made using a digital camera, as my Mac is not L-Draw compatable. (We're buying 2 PC's for my company (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Cool. But when I said "biggest" I meant "largest production run". If we're talking big models in the railroad rolling stock area rather than large production runs, that's a different question. And if the definition of size allows articulation, (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Paul Foster

(...) Are there any pictures of the above on the PNLTC web site??? (...) Paul (URL) (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.trains)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —James Powell

(...) Paul, there are a few pictures of it on James's own site, I don't have the URL for it though. James P (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.trains)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Paul Foster

(...) Sorry, I meant the 5 unit articulated doublestack. (25 years ago, 15-Dec-99, to lugnet.trains)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Kevin Wilson

I'll be very interested to see how this goes. It's something I have been contemplating doing too. I wonder how TLC will react to this - after all, it's competition for them, in a small way. I also wonder about the possibility of forming a group or (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Richard Marchetti

(...) Am I alone in seeing a huge problem with what Larry did? The precise moment he is choosing to do it? I wrote a really long reply to this that I decided I'd better not post. Am I taking it all too seriously? -- Richard (SQL addled at 2 a.m.) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Larry Pieniazek

(...) PS, I have been working on this for months, the timing was driven by "all the parts of the listing and the instructions are complete" more than anything else. The first instance of this hopper was sold well over 6 months ago, back in April. (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Tom Stangl

You're taking it too seriously. He designed his own set, there is nothing in the Legalese at TLC that disallows that. And the fact that he has to buy TONS of sets right now to gather the parts to build them, or trade with people that have, certainly (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Larry Pieniazek

(...) I'm interested in a group, let's discuss further. I know you're looking at the selling end but I'm most interested in the production end of things... until you try to produce ten copies of something you don't really know what's entailed. I (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Custom lego Kits group (was 4 axle custom Hopper) —Kevin Wilson

(...) I can imagine <g>. I ws thinking more about the selling end because it can be done virtually. Sharing parts buying introduces the extra cost of mailing parts around - which may or may not be worthwhile. However, I certainly wouldn't assume (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group (was 4 axle custom Hopper) —Todd Lehman

(...) Sounds like the time for this has come. Shall we create a .market.custom newsgroup for this? (I realize of course that when you say 'group' above you mean a different kind of group than a newsgroup, but you're still going to need a place to go (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group (was 4 axle custom Hopper) —James Powell

Personally, I would boycott any bulk purchasing (...) Todd, (and everyone else too!) I would think that they -might- put a stipulation on that you cannot resell directly (Ie auction on E-bay for 3x the money). I would agree with a limit like that. (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group (was 4 axle custom Hopper) —Todd Lehman

(...) Actually, I'll bet they actually couldn't put any restrictions on the parts. Unless each part is individually marked with a unique serial number (like paper money), there's no way to track what happens to the pieces after sale, and therefore (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group (was 4 axle custom Hopper) —James Brown

(...) Agreed. It *might* be trackable for large-volume sellers - i.e. audit them and track how they spent there money - but that gets horribly expensive and has all kinds of legal strings and red tape to go through before you even can try. I don't (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group (was 4 axle custom Hopper) —Mike Poindexter

(...) Why would they do that but not care about people doing the same with the 4532, 5571 or 8480? They have all sold on eBay for a ton more than they were at Shop @ Home while S@H still had them in stock. I personally think that they have no right (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group (was 4 axle custom Hopper) —Ray Sanders

(...) As long as you are not competing with TLC in the same venue, I agree. Is someone makes a better X-wing which impacts TLCs sales, then TLC winds up with a bunch of unsold boxes in a warehouse. Other than that, I don't see any problem. The other (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group (was 4 axle custom Hopper) —Ben Roller

(...) A smart person at TLC would take the data from a few months of Bulk sales and say, "Ok people, our Lego Direct people say we've got 1000's of 1x2 green grill tiles selling bulk, 10000's of green train windows selling, 1000's of blue 2x2 tiles, (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group (was 4 axle custom Hopper) —Frank Filz

James Powell wrote in message ... (...) limit (...) parts -for (...) sueing (...) one. Actually, it could be bad. What if their bulk ordering ends up requiring orders of minimum quantities and dollar amounts? If they prohibited re-sale, the bulk (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group —James Powell

(...) I'll add a comment here: I was thinking that the parts would likely come polybagged of some sort. The way that I think they should post the restriction is that you cannot resell them in the polybag -whist- L@D has/can get the part. This is to (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group (was 4 axle custom Hopper) —Ray Sanders

(...) Todd, My take is that TLC should be concerned not about *will* someone take some of these bulk-purchased parts and make custom created kits for sale, but *what* venue would they be sold in. If someone (like Larry) make 50-100 hoppers and sells (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group (was 4 axle custom Hopper) —Frank Filz

Ray Sanders wrote in message <38541B78.64E5499A@gate.net>... (...) discussions (...) reselling (...) If Larry's hopper (or some other custom set) attracts the attention if TRU or KB, believe me, in the end, TLC will be producing the set. There is (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group (was 4 axle custom Hopper) —Todd Lehman

(...) Ah, yes. IF someone somehow could actually get a toystore (not that they'd want to push for that) to sell these custom "kits" or "sets", yeah, I'd have a hard time disagreeing that TLC would probably be concerned about that. --Todd (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group (was 4 axle custom Hopper) —Larry Pieniazek

(...) I am against creating a group at this point for two reasons: - premature - inter consortium discussions may well want to be private... the nuances of what sets to order, how to organise, etc may be proprietary. Consider, if you will, that (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group —Bryan Wong

(...) Yeah that's one thing you're gonna hafta REALLY think about. If such a group gets formed, and is successful, I don't think Lego will ignore you guys anymore. Although you're not selling original Lego kits, you ARE selling something very (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group —Kevin Maynes

(...) <snip> (...) <snip> (...) Sadly I can't quote specific exact circumstances, but that kind of thing goes on all the time.. I know GM Corvettes, and Ford Mustangs in particular have been run through 'hop-up' shops in limited run numbers. Of (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: Custom lego Kits group —James Powell

(...) Actually, it happens all the time in the model railway world. James Powell (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Richard Marchetti

THE DELAYED POST Ah -- delays, delays. Much of what I have written here is sort of canceled out by Larry's previous post and by Todd Lehman's recent post: "If it were my toy company..." @ (URL) I am sharing because I think these concerns are genuine (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Kevin Maynes

(...) <snipped, 'cause it's LONG> Well, hm... I don't really see how we as AFOL's, even banded together, could REALLY compete with TLG. I mean, even if the parts used in custom non-TLG-designed sets were acquired really cheap, a profit would still (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —James Powell

(...) Kevin's policy is 2 years -after- the set is no longer a current catalog item. In other words, 2 years after Larry -stops producing- the hopper, Kevin might archive the instructions. No sooner than that, and I believe Kevin has talked to TLG (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —James Brown

(...) Hmm. I really don't think it's likely. Point 1:I think it's safe to assume that LEGO will sell parts at a profit, yes? So no matter what else happens, LEGO makes money indirectly every time a custom model gets sold. Point 2:It's a fairly (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Kevin Wilson

(...) Now, if that was so, Richard, why would I have noted in *both* my recent posts in this thread that I wanted to know how Lego would view this? In this case, Lego has absolutely the "whip hand": if they do not want this to happen they are the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Jeff Thompson

(...) It doesn't to me. If LEGO wants to release another hopper train car, they will be able to do so, at a price that Larry will not be able to match. If Larry manages to establish a booming business in hopper cars, selling them in the thousands (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

bulk dynamics revisited —Todd Lehman

(...) I was speaking for myself only. When I say "Personally, I would boycott..." I mean that I personally couldn't "buy into" it under such a restriction -- to agree to buy bulk under a restriction like that that wouldn't feel morally right to me. (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Todd Lehman

(...) I'm not worried about it. People have been selling custom LEGO models via auction for more than 5 years and as long as you don't infringe on any of TLC's IP or accidentally misrepresent the models as being official, it's really no different in (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Jeff Thompson

(...) I see it as light-years away from selling clones. I get what you're saying, but, clone manufacturers have to take care not to violate any of LEGO's patents. Since we're not manufacturering bricks, that's not a problem in the least. There is (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Todd Lehman

(...) Exactly. It's so far away from selling clones that in the worse case, it's like the kinds of set-design (not parts design) issues that clone- brand manufacturers have to worry about. In the best case, it's so far away from selling clones that (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Ray Sanders

(...) Ahh, but all the parts *are* official TLC parts (even if you do not say that). A big issue with bulk sales is that someone does not take advantage of the *privilege* (of buying bulk) to compete with TLC in the same venue. I would hate to see a (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Frank Filz

Ray Sanders wrote in message <38541EAB.7CA7F4DB@gate.net>... (...) Hey cool. MB has some reasonably nice set designs, and if they got TLC to manufacture the parts they have that TLC doesn't that would be even cooler - they have some nice parts. If (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Jeff Thompson

(...) I'm too much of a pessimist to expect that the bulk sales are going to come cheaply enough that a clone manufacturer could hope to compete directly against LEGO by buying their elements. I don't think LEGO isn't going to price the bulk (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —John Neal

As the winner of the first hopper Lar constructed for auction in the Gary Louie Memorial Auction, I can testify to the model's merit. It is a must car for every serious Trainiac's collection (Puts the 4536 to shame, IMHO ). Of course, this car looks (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory, lugnet.trains)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Nope. In fact the lot description specifically states that you can make as many copies as you want, for your own use. You just don't have commercial redistribution rights. Offline, two people pointed out that one can come quite close to (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory, lugnet.trains)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Kevin Maynes

So.. Larry.. :) Are we gonna have to wait 'til 2002 to get your instructions up on Brickshelf? ;) (...) <snippettydoodaa> (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Scott Arthur

Can a Lego design be copyrighted? Larry Pieniazek wrote in message <38532D25.B393E19D@v...er.net>... (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Bram Lambrecht

(...) Coincidentally, I'm just now working on a LEGO-style box design for one of my own models! But it'll just be a virtual box...I don't really want to get in any legal trouble. --Bram Bram Lambrecht / o o \ BramL@juno.com (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.trains, lugnet.market.theory, lugnet.cad)

Special note (was Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Larry Pieniazek

It should be noted that the referenced post was not a solicitation to bid or buy (other than extremely incidentally) but was an invitation to discussion. And discussion IS occurring, as I had hoped it would. Readers who draw a conclusion of the (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.auction, lugnet.trains, lugnet.market.theory, lugnet.cad)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Steven Barile

Larry, Thanks for the mention! In fact I wish that I could cotinue to sell MOCs after about 6 Chessie System engines I plumb ran out of parts! I have been discussing at length with some of the other club members how to start a small company that (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)

Re: [FA] - eBay - Lego CUSTOM: - Unique 4 axle custom Hopper —Kevin Maynes

Here's a thought; Reverse Engineering. Buying an 'original copy' and using the instructions to make several models is one thing.. using what information is available to cobble together something that looks like the original could be quite another. (...) (25 years ago, 18-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)