Subject:
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Re: License revision 1
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.cad.dev
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Date:
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Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:51:30 GMT
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Viewed:
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628 times
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First, koen, I am the one who asked. I would like to package leocad
for Debian GNU/Linux, and I cannot [legally] distribute the ldraw parts
library with it unless it contains an acceptable license.
On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 01:24:34PM +0000, Leonardo Zide wrote:
> Based on some feedback, here's a revised copy of the license. I hope
> it addresses more concerns raised here, while keeping it free.
>
> Note that paragraph 5 is only for commercial applications, L3P is not
> subject to it.
Why? Say Internet explorer had some sort of propriety file format for
something or other for which it was desirable to be able to read from.
Let's also say the MS give control over IE to a non-profit
organization. IE can be obtained for free right now, and if it was
under the control of a non-profit it could be considered
non-commercial, no? This allows my market dominating semi-commercial
software to circumvent your license terms. This is not a very good
example, but:
What is the purpose of requiring things from commercial software but
not others?
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This library is provided 'as-is', without any express or implied
> warranty. In no event will the authors be held liable for any damages
> arising from the use of this library.
>
> Permission is granted to anyone to use this library for any purpose,
> including commercial applications, and to alter it and redistribute it
> freely, subject to the following restrictions:
>
> 1. The origin of this library must not be misrepresented; you must not
> claim that you wrote the original library. If you use this library
> in a product, an acknowledgment in the product documentation is
> required.
> 2. Altered versions must be plainly marked as such, and must not be
> misrepresented as being the original library.
> 3. This file may not be removed or altered from any distribution.
>
> If this library is used with a commercial application then it's use
> and redistribution is also subject to the following conditions:
should probably be "this library in original or modified form is used
within" or "distributed with" or
How does one define "commercial"? I can, if I am a commercial entity or
not, charge money for the distribution of free software. (i.e. Red Hat
sells free software). Does a GPL'd app sold by the commercial entity Red
Hat become a commercial app? I know that [most] any software Red Hat
sells can be obtained gratis, but the line of "commercial" or not seems
very fuzzy.
>
> 4. All library contributors must be granted a full license to use the
> application for only a nominal fee to cover the physical act of
> transferring a copy of the application.
I have a hard time seeing any company agreeing to this. I mean, I trust
you, but since the library is community developed, the community
decides who is considered a contributor, and could theoretically put
*anyone* on the contributors list (again, I am not at all suggesting
that this would actually happen).
If I coded MS Word single-handedly and then left the company, I would
have to buy it just like anyone else.
>
> 5. If the library or parts of it are converted to another format
> then the source code of the program used to convert the library
> must also be made available.
As someone else mentioned, if rendering a model is converting, that
means a proprietary renderer cannot be used as it is a commercial
application that is using the parts library. I suppose with careful
wording, this could be cleared up though.
This is a bit GPL-esque. Many of you seem averse to the GPL when
discussing what it would mean to your own ldraw parts using software,
but expect corporations to freely give their own source code. Yes, it
is not the entire program, but from the eyes of a corporation it is no
different than any other part of the program.
If this clause is included, I think it should be made very clear as to
how this source code is to be made available. I can freely give source
code to those willing to sign an NDA (although, if everyone in the
whole world signed the NDA it would kinda defeat the purpose, but you
get the idea).
>
> If you would like to use this library under other licenses, write
> to the authors to ask for permission; we sometimes make exceptions.
>
> [INSERT LIST OF CONTRIBUTORS (authors + maintainers)]
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Leonardo
I hope I didn't come off sounding like a total ass; I am part
non-developer free software zealot, part ass, and part devil's
advocate... I think leocad is very cool, and I appreciate all the work
you have done on the parts that it uses. I (and others) really want to
see it in debian and in debian-jr (for kids) in particular.
I will probably be getting second opinions (IANAL) about the license
from the debian-legal mailing list as you get closer to a consensus.
Of course, it is soon to be Christmas break and I will be demoted to a
dialup line for a month, but I should still be able to follow these
lists.
--
Pat Mahoney <patmahoney@gmx.net>
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for
reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."
-- Albert Einstein
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: License revision 1
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| (...) The idea of making it different for commercial applications was to allow L3P to continue to be distributed under its current license. Now I see that it's a bad thing and #5 should either be completely removed or required for free applications (...) (24 years ago, 14-Dec-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | License revision 1
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| Based on some feedback, here's a revised copy of the license. I hope it addresses more concerns raised here, while keeping it free. Note that paragraph 5 is only for commercial applications, L3P is not subject to it. ---...--- This library is (...) (24 years ago, 13-Dec-00, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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