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Hello! (...) Fine. Becoming aware of something usually is a good first step into a better direction. (...) Yeah, great! We (the AFOLs) fight against those new colours and you (TLC) make them even more solid and declare them made for eternity? (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) ...and ensuring issues like this don't happen again. (...) Only if you choose to view it that way. (I tend to be a "on the bright side...." kind of guy) To me, this is the AFOLs saying something (we're upset that things changed suddenly), and (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) With all due respect, Jake, this doesn't make me feel better. Saying 'Oops, it'll never happen again' doesn't really mean anything to me, because the change has already happened. If LEGO changes the colors again, what do I care, I don't plan (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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Hello! (...) And so is mine. Thanks, Anthony! Bye Jojo (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) It might be worth noting that this doesn't suggest that TLG will actually take AFOL input into consideration--merely that TLG won't make the change without AFOL input. The input might easily be ignored, but TLG can still claim to have accepted (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Ah, good to see you finally "noticed the color change". ;^) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Doh! Uh, well, er, I just, um, wanted to stay current re: LEGO developments. Hey, you're supposed to be in ot.debate! What are you doing here? Dave! (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) My thoughts exactly Yaron "Webrain" Dori (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Wow. That's harsh. Jake --- Jake McKee Community Liaison LEGO Community Development (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Heh. Well, what can I say? I tend to be an "on the dark side" kind of guy... Harsh, perhaps--but is my assessment inaccurate? Aside from the bottom line, corporations love nothing as much as preserving wiggle room. Dave! (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) I suppose, you could be right, but I think it misses the entire point of why we would ask for feedback in the first place. Why would we even bother to ask if we didn't think we would somehow use it? The point of us agreeing to include AFOLs (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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"Jake McKee" <jacob.mckee@america.lego.com> wrote in message news:Hx9Aox.251s@lugnet.com... (...) themselves. Jake, then why can't we hear from TLC, the people driven company, why they thought reversing 20+ years of product design was "good." ? We (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) But how can we trust those words, if you already broke those words, despite your corporate values and such? Sorry Jake, but apart from changing the stud dimension LEGO committed one of the worst mistakes any such company could make and it (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) I should take a moment to thank you for your courtesy in addressing my concerns, since I flatter myself to think that you might know my MO here on LUGNET, so I'm hardly the biggest income source for TLG. Thank you. I don't mean to lay a big (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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In lugnet.general, Dave Schuler wrote: [sniparoo] (...) I understand the point, but I don't exactly follow it. The only way that sales are boosted by paying attention to AFOL feedback is with the AFOL market. There really isn't a way we can take (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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In lugnet.general, Jan-Albert van Ree wrote: <Frustration Warning!> (...) First off, when did I (or anyone from LEGO) ever previously say we were locking colors and no changes would ever be made? I don't recall ever having done that. And I'm not (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego) !
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(...) I guess I'm thinking about it like this (and please correct me if I'm wrong): AFOL's are among the most die-hard fans of the brand (low flight-risk) AFOL's account for a low percentage of overall sales (low dollar-risk) Kids (& non-AFOL (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) I know you mean well, (read: don't take this personal) but I completely disagree with this. I know for a fact the the only thing that has changed in my 'wants' since I was 8, is the quantity. AFOLs are AFOLs because we were addicted as kids. (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Jake, I for one really appreciate the considerable effort by yourself and LEGO in listening and responding to the feedback from a small group of consumers. I hope the negative responses here don't adversely affect future LEGO community (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) <My opinion> The 'natural' transition to the new colors would be to have as many different elements as possible available in the *new* colors as soon as possible (bulk, mixed packs, etc). As long as only a few different parts are available, (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Oh, and I forgot: It would be *very* handy to have a fuller list of 'frozen' colors, to know what to concentrate on... -- Anders Isaksson, Sweden BlockCAD: (2 URLs) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote: <<snipped>> (...) Let me say seeing this apology shows this AFOL that Lego does care about us. (...) No doubt there. The parts packs being offered now are a very good start IMO. By "locking" in certain parts in (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Read Jojo's statement, that's pretty much my point of view as well... (...) They managed to back it up with reasonable facts and managed to convince people it was a better product (and at a similair price level, which in that case was (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Jake, I feel people may be cynical due to the experience of being "short-changed" by other large companies. Take eBay, for example. they always like to give the impression they are listening and "taking the community's ideas on board", when (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) AFOLs contribute a lot of free advertising about LEGO product by doing shows, running websites, and helping parents/kids out in the toy aisles. The tone of that advertising is very much dependant on how well our concerns are being addressed. (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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It's not harsh. It's just a clear statement of what *could* happen. Judging by this color debacle, it's not much of a stretch, either. I have yet to see a clear Business Case answer for the color change. Everything stated to date has been pretty (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) I don't agree with that statement. It clearly means that AFOL input WILL be taken into consideration. Clearly that does not mean that TLG won't make changes contradictory to the wishes of the AFOL community... nor should it. TLG will make its (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) The simple answer is you didn't. Ever. Not in so many words, at least. However, to quote the last sentence on p16 of the 2002 LEGO Brand Guide, "All LEGO elements, whether produced in Denmark or Switzerland, in 1958 or 2001, are fully (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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| | Colour change: The best way to screw the Lego values
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Jake, Again, it is not against you but those who made the decision. (...) Just for reference, freshly from the lego.com site: "Quality for the LEGO Company is about product quality, ethical values and a consistency in all of our actions that (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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Hello David! (...) Thanks. Bye Jojo (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Agreed, and if you stand around me in person more than 10 minutes, you'll probably hear at least 3 big "thank you!" for that. But I don't think I did a good job of explaining my point. I'm not saying that AFOLs are not worth listening to. I'm (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Yeah, I can understand this. You make a good point. (...) See, this is where I scratch my head. I'm not sure what more I can do to convince people, or prove to people that we do listen. We've developed tons of products that are extremely AFOL (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) You mean besides reversing the color change? Marc Nelson Jr. (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Yes, you listened to us in this respect, and we are thankful for what TLC did here. And it propably sold good, too. (...) Because the mistake itself, the way how the issue was handeld, the results that have been drawn and the suicidal "we (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) All that was very good. Thank you! But you do realize the color change makes all those good things less compatible with your new products. Right? (...) I'm curious. I'm not sure I caught it in all the talk, but what exactly is the mistake (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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<big snip> (...) I do (...) First Jake, it is not something you can do. It is something that Lego as a company has to do. Return to the original colors and make them the "universal" from this point forward. Accept and realize that this mistake is on (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Some people won't ever be convinced - but I'd like to say this: The very fact of this question, this thread, and this discussion all supports one thing: TLG listens to the Fans. Jake is a paid professional who's sole job (it seems) is to argue (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego) !
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Hello! (...) Yes, by doing all the mentioned above you gave us sugar. But by changing the greys and brown you stole our bread. Bye Jojo (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Ah, I see now. You were trying to say that the only market that cares strictly about the commitment to listen to AFOL feedback is the AFOL market itself, which I can agree with. Noone else has any reason to care why you did something so much (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) This question simply proves that you aren't. This thread has had several people mention that the problem isn't that you're refusing to admit the mistake. The problem is that you refuse to back out of it and switch back to the old colors. (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Boy... you folks just don't get it do you. Changing colours is a business decision!!! The fact that TLG decided to keep the new colours simply can not possibly indicate that they did not listen to AFOLs... only that they believe the new (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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"Tom Stangl, VFAQman" <talonts@vfaq.com> wrote in message news:409AA24C.CFA08D...faq.com... (...) can I do (...) people (...) The problem (...) "Cementing (...) Hmm, by this logic then, I could claim TLC hasn't been listening since 1991 when they (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Jake, All the sets you have listed in this post (and another previous one) were great additions for the AFOL. Many thanks to whoever was responsible for bringing them to us! I don't think anyone would disagree that AFOL treatment was at an all (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) I can't help but cynically joke (by rearranging words) that LEGO has embraced the "4+" community and shunned the minifig this year. Since you're in apology-mode anyway... (...) Keep the all of the wood-like pieces the old brown (Barrels, (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote: -snippage- (...) Jake, I've resisted jumping in and flogging the dead horse, but I also want to add my voice to the chorus. Sorry - this isn't as organized as I would like, but I have tired-head. You don't need (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX) !
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(...) Throw a lot of bricks in old and new colors in a heap on the floor, and then let in a number of kids and take note of which pieces are used first, and most. Mixing old and new gray *really* makes the old look 'dirty', the new are much (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) It's fairly obvious that TLG's goal of profit is the main motivation for the change. To use an example like your own, tell a focus-group-kid that she has five dollars to spend on a either of two sets, one of which has 10 pieces, while the (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) I agree, anything that should be made out of wood should be available in the old color. The old brown looks more like actual wood to me than the new one. Along with that things like 1x1 brown cylinders and 2x2 round bricks and plates for use (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Perhaps just keep the 10040 on as a "permanent" item in the old colors... Would that satisfy pirate builders? (20 years ago, 8-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) SNIP (...) howbout this?: (URL) Jeff (20 years ago, 10-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)
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