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I'm fed up with this on ebay/brickbay.
What is it with you people ? Is your postal service that unsafe ?
Or are just (backward) children in a play-pen? Duh !
Grow up. You're not that fr*%^n central to the cosmos.
Each time I see 'Will ship to United States only'' ...
<censored>
</censored>
R. Webb
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In lugnet.general, Ronan Webb writes:
> I'm fed up with this on ebay/brickbay.
>
> What is it with you people ? Is your postal service that unsafe ?
> Or are just (backward) children in a play-pen? Duh !
> Grow up. You're not that fr*%^n central to the cosmos.
> Each time I see 'Will ship to United States only'' ...
I find it irritating too, but I can certainly see why they do it:
US citizens are the largest body of online e-commerce users - they're the
biggest market.
US postal service will give them fixed-rate, guaranteed service and they never
have to even see a post office. But it's only inside the US.
International postal rates vary by country, and it means before a seller can
even give a final total, they have to pack up whatever you bought, take it to
the post office, and find out how much it costs - all before they get paid.
The fact is, it's a heck of a lot easier, faster, and cheaper for US sellers to
deal with US buyers.
So quit whining.
James
(F-UT lugnet.market.theory, where this belongs.)
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in article G7su7w.2ts@lugnet.com, Ronan Webb wrote:
> I'm fed up with this on ebay/brickbay.
>
> What is it with you people ? Is your postal service that unsafe ?
Not usually, but many overseas postal services are.
> Or are just (backward) children in a play-pen? Duh !
Is that an insult?
> Grow up. You're not that fr*%^n central to the cosmos.
No, I'm not. I think ++Lar is, in fact, the center of the cosmos. ;^)
> Each time I see 'Will ship to United States only'' ...
I can't speak for everyone else, but in my case, it has to do with time. In
the past, overseas payments have taken up to three weeks to reach me. Then I
have to go to the post office, stand in line for about 20 minutes, fill out
numerous forms, and then the package gets mailed. After that, it can take up
to three weeks for the recipient to get the package and leave feedback.
It's much faster and simpler to restrict shipment to the US.
~Mark "Muffin Head" Sandlin
--
Mark's Lego(R) Creations
http://www.nwlink.com/~sandlin/lego
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In lugnet.general, James Brown writes:
> International postal rates vary by country, and it means before a seller can
> even give a final total, they have to pack up whatever you bought, take it to
> the post office, and find out how much it costs - all before they get paid.
Say it's christmas season and waiting in line at the post office can take up
to 30 minutes. Combine that with a Non-Paying Buyer and there's a problem.
Rather than making 2 trips to the post office and giving accurate shipping,
I tend to just estimate lower than what the final shipping charge might end
up and eating part of the shipping charge myself about 90% of the time. In
the 10% cases shipping is lower than the estimate, I'd give credit to the
buyer on their next purchase or just consider the difference a charge for
the other things that make up shipping - handling, box, packaging tape, etc.
So the only difference with shipping to other countries becomes filing out a
customs form. It works out well, I never received a complaint.
Having to make 2 trips to the post office for international buyers would
mean that I'd rather not ship internationally.
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In lugnet.general, James Brown writes:
> In lugnet.general, Ronan Webb writes:
> > I'm fed up with this on ebay/brickbay.
> >
> > What is it with you people ? Is your postal service that unsafe ?
> > Or are just (backward) children in a play-pen? Duh !
> > Grow up. You're not that fr*%^n central to the cosmos.
> > Each time I see 'Will ship to United States only'' ...
>
> I find it irritating too, but I can certainly see why they do it:
>
> US citizens are the largest body of online e-commerce users - they're the
> biggest market.
>
> US postal service will give them fixed-rate, guaranteed service and they never
> have to even see a post office. But it's only inside the US.
And don't forget, if we send the package Priority (inexpensive in the U.S.,
prohibitive elsewhere), the post office provides free boxes (of which some
sizes are conveniently self-sealing), labels, and even packaging tape! We can
order these supplies online and they'll deliver them right to our door.
Maggie C. (who is willing to ship internationally BTW)
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In lugnet.general, Ronan Webb writes:
> I'm fed up with this on ebay/brickbay.
>
> What is it with you people ? Is your postal service that unsafe ?
> Or are just (backward) children in a play-pen? Duh !
> Grow up. You're not that fr*%^n central to the cosmos.
> Each time I see 'Will ship to United States only'' ...
> <censored>
> </censored>
>
> R. Webb
<very $#%(&#^ rant!>
Oh that's it. This REALLY get's my giggy! Where are you? What do you
want? I'll send it gad nabbit. My post office is 24 hours. I'll go right
now and get some rates. This should probably go elsewhere and will most
likely generate a LOT of flak but I really don't care. I hate sellers who
don't ship international, don't take personal checks, don't take Paypal,
charge the bidder for Paypal fees, charge $10 bank fees in non-US countries
when I have recently learned that many banks charge a $10 fee whether it's
one or twenty checks. As a seller I am a complete capitalist. Personal
check? I'll take it. International shipment, absolutely. Paypal fees,
I'll suck em up. (I am a firm believer in seller sucking up auction and
other fees, I practice what I preach) These are major pet peeves for me,
and I notice a lot of these practices are prevalent with toy sellers,
especially the die-cast/Hot Wheels group. I really don't get it. If I see
a seller that doesn't take either Paypal or a check I skip it unless I
really want it. When I sell I want everybody's money, I don't who or where
you are. OK, I'm calm now. Snip away kids.
</very $#%(&#^ rant!>
junior
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Ronan & All,
> I'm fed up with this on ebay/brickbay.
Well, I am fed up with many things as well, it is understandable, but there
are reasons for this.
> What is it with you people ? Is your postal service that unsafe ?
> Or are just (backward) children in a play-pen? Duh !
> Grow up. You're not that fr*%^n central to the cosmos.
> Each time I see 'Will ship to United States only'' ...
This is on the borderline of good taste, and I think if you want people to
consider shipping to other places than just the U.S., you need to be a
little more courteous, and watch the langauge content as well. If you feel
like debating the US central to the cosmos statement, take it up in
off.topic.debate, which has been around the gambit a few times already.
My business ships internationally, only because I know many people like it.
However, it does involve more risk, more money, and more time. The United
States Postal Service has decent service to other US sites, but when it
starts going to other countries around the world, there are several other
factors to consider. I had a shipment that went to Venezula, I bought a few
sets for a good customer I have down there, and ended up losing it, costing
me around $200.00. I cannot get insurance for that country, so I am flat out
that money. If I shipped it inside the US, I could have gotten insurance for
it. The Venezulan post office is not very good, according to my customer.
It also involves customs, customs forms in some cases, and generally, a
deeper, more frustrating experience. If you want people to change their
minds about this, buy from venders that do ship internationally, build up a
reputation, and maybe e-mail sellers that don't to consider you, and see if
they might accomodate you. Making generalities, psudo-swearing, and insults
does not produce anything good, IMHO.
FUT shipping practices, market views:-> lugnet.market.shipping,
lugnet.market.theory
Debate points:> lugnet.off.topic.debate
Sincerely,
Scott S.
--
Want LEGO Elements at Great Prices?
Visit The Sanburn Systems Company
www.sanburnsystems.com
Scott E. Sanburn, Owner
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Edward Sanburn writes:
> My business ships internationally, only because I know many people like it.
> However, it does involve more risk, more money, and more time. The United
> States Postal Service has decent service to other US sites, but when it
> starts going to other countries around the world, there are several other
> factors to consider. I had a shipment that went to Venezula, I bought a few
> sets for a good customer I have down there, and ended up losing it, costing
> me around $200.00. I cannot get insurance for that country, so I am flat out
> that money. If I shipped it inside the US, I could have gotten insurance for
> it. The Venezulan post office is not very good, according to my customer.
>
> It also involves customs, customs forms in some cases, and generally, a
> deeper, more frustrating experience.
Ugh! Those forms!!! So many times (when I *was* selling internationally), I'd
be asked to put "gift" and value of $20 on $60 order. I did it, but hated it,
and generally felt pretty icky about doing it.
I ditto the points Dan, Maggie and Mark made.
Julie
If you want people to change their
> minds about this, buy from venders that do ship internationally, build up a
> reputation, and maybe e-mail sellers that don't to consider you, and see if
> they might accomodate you. Making generalities, psudo-swearing, and insults
> does not produce anything good, IMHO.
>
> FUT shipping practices, market views:-> lugnet.market.shipping,
> lugnet.market.theory
> Debate points:> lugnet.off.topic.debate
>
> Sincerely,
> Scott S.
> --
> Want LEGO Elements at Great Prices?
> Visit The Sanburn Systems Company
> www.sanburnsystems.com
> Scott E. Sanburn, Owner
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In lugnet.general, Ronan Webb writes:
> I'm fed up with this on ebay/brickbay.
>
> What is it with you people ? Is your postal service that unsafe ?
> Or are just (backward) children in a play-pen? Duh !
> Grow up. You're not that fr*%^n central to the cosmos.
> Each time I see 'Will ship to United States only'' ...
I can explain one of the main reasons quite clearly.
The small (low single digit) percentage of my former sales to international
customers did not justify the huge amount of time and effort it took to ship
things to them.
Am I losing sales by only shipping within the US? Certainly. Am I avoiding
wasting a lot of time on a very small return? Certainly.
It has nothing to do with thinking we're the center of the cosmos or better
than you or anything else. It is nothing more than a simple cost/benefit
analysis. The small benefit I would receive in selling internationally is
most certainly not worth the large cost. Nothing personal about it.
Doesn't mean I don't like you, don't think you're money is good, don't want
you to enjoy your Lego hobby as much as anyone else. I'm just not willing
to jump through tons of extra hoops to do what you want.
Some sellers are - deal with them.
I'll continue to do what works best for me. I get my boxes, labels, and
packing tape - all for free. I don't have to stockpile random boxes, hoping
that I can fit some international order in a box that isn't so big that it
automatically goes at the highest rate, and only finding that out after I've
been paid too little. I ate differences in international shipping costs
more than once - I won't do it again.
So I guess the ultimate answer for a lot of US sellers is - "it just isn't
worth it" to sell internationally. Sorry if that bothers you, but it's the
truth.
Peace.
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I find it annoying as well. And even if I ask nice enough, most people will
send me something, because I am in Canada. It seems most people are worried
about overseas selling. I think that is understandable. I have not and
most likely will no purchase from overseas.
What bugs me are the people who charge a flat out rate for international
shipping, say $4 US. That's about $6 up here in Canada. Then I receive the
package, which is more like an envelope, and has a shipping charge of less
than $2.
And I don't even want to get started on those green forms. Gift,
merchandise, who really cares anyway. I still haven't figured out why it's
on there. Most of the packages I get that are not marked gift, require some
payment to be received from Canada Post, but not all of them for some
reason. I don't get it. I just try to avoid buying from the US when possible.
Ending rant...now.
-Adam
In lugnet.general, Ronan Webb writes:
> I'm fed up with this on ebay/brickbay.
>
> What is it with you people ? Is your postal service that unsafe ?
> Or are just (backward) children in a play-pen? Duh !
> Grow up. You're not that fr*%^n central to the cosmos.
> Each time I see 'Will ship to United States only'' ...
> <censored>
> </censored>
>
> R. Webb
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In lugnet.general, Kevin Wilson writes:
> The easy answer is to buy from the many people who, like myself, DO ship
> internationally. Pick a Canadian and you pick someone whose sales are 95%
> international and has international paying and shipping down to a fine art
> :-)
Wow - Nicely said Kevin! That's good publicity for us Canadians! :)
Bryan
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Kevin Wilson wrote:
>
> Ronan Webb wrote in message ...
> > I'm fed up with this on ebay/brickbay.
> >
> > What is it with you people ? Is your postal service that unsafe ?
> > Or are just (backward) children in a play-pen? Duh !
> > Grow up. You're not that fr*%^n central to the cosmos.
> > Each time I see 'Will ship to United States only'' ...
> > <censored>
> > </censored>
>
> The easy answer is to buy from the many people who, like myself, DO ship
> internationally. Pick a Canadian and you pick someone whose sales are 95%
> international and has international paying and shipping down to a fine art
I'll have to 2nd dealing with Canadians. I have had nothing but good
experiences with it. Some of the Canadian folks I have dealt with many
times:
Martin Legault
Kevin Wilson
Guy Belanger (ibuyifdpriceisright on eBay - I practically know his
address by heart)
Russel North (vwbugrazz on eBay)
Tim Strutt
Mathew Brown (MA auctions)
Frank
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In lugnet.general, Adam Murtha writes:
> I find it annoying as well. And even if I ask nice enough, most people will
> send me something, because I am in Canada. It seems most people are worried
> about overseas selling. I think that is understandable. I have not and
> most likely will no purchase from overseas.
>
> What bugs me are the people who charge a flat out rate for international
> shipping, say $4 US. That's about $6 up here in Canada. Then I receive the
> package, which is more like an envelope, and has a shipping charge of less
> than $2.
The reason I sometimes add on extra $$$ to the shipping total is because if
the supplies. In the US we get Priority boxes free from the PO. However when
we ship internationally we must buy our own supplies. For example, that
padded envelope you were talking about would cost me an additional dollar to
$1.50USD depending on the set. I personally would never send a boxed set in
a padded envelope, however if others do I can understand the additional charge.
-Rich
---------------------
Looking for discontinued sets MISB?
http://www.brickfan.bigstep.com
80+ sets available
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(Trying to redirect it to the proper group!)
> I find it annoying as well.
Now, now, Adam! ; )
> And even if I ask nice enough, most people will
> send me something, because I am in Canada. It seems most people are • worried
> about overseas selling. I think that is understandable. I have not and
> most likely will no purchase from overseas.
It is a legitimate concern, especially when you are dealing with other
governmental entities.
> What bugs me are the people who charge a flat out rate for international
> shipping, say $4 US. That's about $6 up here in Canada. Then I receive • the
> package, which is more like an envelope, and has a shipping charge of less
> than $2.
Well, I charge flat rate shipping, because I have a hard time trying to
weigh several pieces of LEGO items, the bags, stuffing, and the box, and
trying to get an absolute number to charge. There are several additional
costs to the postage, like those envelopes, which run anywhere from 0.75 to
2.00 each, so that 4.00 you mentioned is justifiable, IMO. There are other
places that charge ridiculous amounts for shipping, like 8.00 ~9.00+ for a
twenty dollar order, so if you pay as little more than the shipping costs,
be glad. I make no money on shipping, let me assure you.
> And I don't even want to get started on those green forms. Gift,
> merchandise, who really cares anyway.
It is a potential chargable offense, and it is a risk.
> I still haven't figured out why it's
> on there. Most of the packages I get that are not marked gift, require • some
> payment to be received from Canada Post, but not all of them for some
> reason. I don't get it. I just try to avoid buying from the US when
possible.
Well, the Canadian government is trying to squish out competition and free
trade by putting charges on merchandise that comes in from outside of
Canada. The USPS requires custom forms to items to Canada if it is over a
pound. I do not know if it is a Candian or US regulation, I would assume it
is a Canada request.
> Ending rant...now.
Well, Adam, you can rant all you want, but there are certain risks, costs,
and other things that yous eem not to care about, and these reasons are why
some people choose not to ship outside of the US, and sometimes, I feel the
same way, especially after reading some posts in this thread.
Scott S.
--
Want LEGO Elements at Great Prices?
Visit The Sanburn Systems Company
www.sanburnsystems.com
Scott E. Sanburn, Owner
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Scott E. Sanburn wrote in message
<003b01c08870$56e77d20$98851b26@default>...
> Well, I charge flat rate shipping, because I have a hard time trying to
> weigh several pieces of LEGO items, the bags, stuffing, and the box, and
> trying to get an absolute number to charge. There are several additional
> costs to the postage, like those envelopes, which run anywhere from 0.75 to
> 2.00 each, so that 4.00 you mentioned is justifiable, IMO. There are other
I don't know where you and Rich are getting your padded envelopes, Scott. I
use padded envelopes for anything thin enough to go lettermail (under 20mm
thick) and they cost me 45c CN each - that's 30c US. And I'm not buying them
bulk wholesale either, that's off the shelf at the Staples office supplies
store.
I also shake my head over the several people who complain about estimating
the weight, getting packing materials, filling out forms etc. I ship over
100 packages a month, 95% to the US, and all of them have a customs form on,
a box, packaging material, etc. I don't run to the PO and weigh every
package - most small parts lots come under the Small Packet heading and it's
easy to estimate which weight range they fall into (and if you can't
estimate, kitchen scales do a good job). The only awkward ones are large
sets which come expensive if you get the estimate wrong, those I do weigh.
Understand that I'm not saying US sellers don't have a right to say they
won't sell outside the US. Undoubtedly, they do. But the packing and
weighing and forms issue is a convenience thing only - if you don't feel
like doing it, fine, but don't make it sound like it's some great onerous
thing. I do it every day and it ain't.
> > And I don't even want to get started on those green forms. Gift,
> > merchandise, who really cares anyway.
>
> It is a potential chargable offense, and it is a risk.
Here I agree. I am *really* annoyed by people who assume I am willing to lie
on the customs form for them. Luckily it's not an isse to teh US since
there's no duty on Lego anyway.
> Well, the Canadian government is trying to squish out competition and free
> trade by putting charges on merchandise that comes in from outside of
> Canada.
Nothing to do with competition and free trade. Anything sold to a Canadian
gets GST (=Federal SAles Tax) charged on it (with some exceptions like
food). Lego has no duty charged on it, but Canada Post charges a $5 fee to
collect whatever GST there is owing (very annoying when the GST is only
20c!). Not every package gets this hit, I assume they jst don't notive every
one. Sometimes I get a big package with nothing charged on it, and a small
package and have to pay. Officially US customers are supposed to pay their
State sales tax on stuff they by from out of state, right? (As are Canadians
supposed to self-assess Provincial sales tax, but nobody does...)
The USPS requires custom forms to items to Canada if it is over a
> pound. I do not know if it is a Candian or US regulation, I would assume it
> is a Canada request.
Canada Post requires a customs form on ANYTHING going to the US which
contains goods. Maybe that's a US request?
Kevin
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Victorian House: Limited edition kit
http://www.lionsgatemodels.com/cat-vblu.htm
Craftsman Kits & Custom Lego models: http://www.lionsgatemodels.com
Brickbay store: http://www.brickbay.com/store.asp?p=Kevinw1
eBay auctions: http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/kevinw1/
Personal Lego Web page:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kwilson_tccs/lego.html
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In lugnet.market.theory, Kevin Wilson writes:
> I don't know where you and Rich are getting your padded envelopes, Scott. I
> use padded envelopes for anything thin enough to go lettermail (under 20mm
> thick) and they cost me 45c CN each - that's 30c US. And I'm not buying them
> bulk wholesale either, that's off the shelf at the Staples office supplies
> store.
I won't speak to the cost of shipping materials issue, other than to say
that it really doesn't make much difference whether it is 30 cents or 3
dollars. Compared to free, it is more.
> I also shake my head over the several people who complain about estimating
> the weight, getting packing materials, filling out forms etc. I ship over
> 100 packages a month, 95% to the US, and all of them have a customs form on,
> a box, packaging material, etc. I don't run to the PO and weigh every
That's a key difference. 95 of your 100 packages are to the US, where
you're dealing with the same rates to pretty much get it to someone in one
state as another. For me to switch back to shipping all over the world I
wouldn't have the luxury of shipping 95/100 of my international packages to
one country. Some would go to Canada, some to Italy, some to England, and
so on.
You'd be foolish (financially) to ignore the US buying market. You just
can't say that I'm foolish to ignore the market outside of the US. You'd be
ignoring 95% of your market - I might be ignoring 2% of mine.
> Understand that I'm not saying US sellers don't have a right to say they
> won't sell outside the US. Undoubtedly, they do. But the packing and
> weighing and forms issue is a convenience thing only - if you don't feel
> like doing it, fine, but don't make it sound like it's some great onerous
> thing. I do it every day and it ain't.
Well, again, you *have* to do it to serve the bulk of your buyers. It
doesn't seem onerous to you. But when I can sell to 98% of my buyers
without filling out a single form, without consulting some odd tables and
trying to figure out if this box's dimensions bump it into the next rate
level, and so on, doing those things for a $10 order DOES seem onerous in
comparison.
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In lugnet.market.theory, Dan Jezek writes:
> Rather than making 2 trips to the post office and giving accurate shipping,
> I tend to just estimate lower than what the final shipping charge might end
> up and eating part of the shipping charge myself about 90% of the time. In
> the 10% cases shipping is lower than the estimate, I'd give credit to the
> buyer on their next purchase or just consider the difference a charge for
> the other things that make up shipping - handling, box, packaging tape, etc.
> So the only difference with shipping to other countries becomes filing out a
> customs form. It works out well, I never received a complaint.
>
> Having to make 2 trips to the post office for international buyers would
> mean that I'd rather not ship internationally.
Last summer, I put in a bid at a postal junk sale auction for a lot of scales. I
was hoping that I would get one or two that worked. I won the lot and it turns
out that all but one were operational. That investment has paid for itself many
times over (gas saved, time spent, cost estimating, etc).
This is a pic of my shipping dept. The smaller scale tells me that a Desert
Skiff weighs 2.35 oz. ;)
http://www.svic.net/rsanders/DCP03010s.JPG
Ray
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"Ronan Webb" <rwebb@ehnospamaltavista.net> wrote in message
news:G7su7w.2ts@lugnet.com...
> I'm fed up with this on ebay/brickbay.
>
> What is it with you people ? Is your postal service that unsafe ?
> Or are just (backward) children in a play-pen? Duh !
> Grow up. You're not that fr*%^n central to the cosmos.
> Each time I see 'Will ship to United States only'' ...
> <censored>
> </censored>
The interesting thing is, that whilst many of the replies to this have
defended the USA postal service (words like 'Guaranteed'), it is
disappointing that they do not seem to support any registered/recorded mail
services coming in from overseas.
I have shipped lego to several countries that support registered mail that
ensures the reciever signs for it, and I get a tracking number from the UK
post office that enables me to follow its progress. This is for standard
registered mail, not some expensive courier service. Except I cant do this
when sending to the USA.
I cant confess to knowing that every country except the USA supports this,
but it is interesting that the USA is singled out on the UK post office web
site as the one country that doesnt.
regards
lawrence
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In lugnet.general, Adam Murtha writes:
> And I don't even want to get started on those green forms. Gift,
> merchandise, who really cares anyway. I still haven't figured out why it's
> on there. Most of the packages I get that are not marked gift, require some
> payment to be received from Canada Post, but not all of them for some
> reason. I don't get it. I just try to avoid buying from the US when possible.
The customs form is a requirement of the US post office in conjunction the the
US Customs Service. How that form is treated on the receiving end (Canada is
this case) is based on Canadian customs/duties laws. In the US, 'Construction
Toys' are not charged an import duty. Canada seems to feel otherwise. If I ship
a package with an incorrectly marked customs form, that would be a 'chargeable
offense' (as someone else pointed out). I believe that this form is an
international requirement under the International Postal Union.
If someone is not happy about the charges, they should take it up with the
customs (or elected) officials in their country, not with the seller. I believe
that Canadian Customs would treat these forms exactly the same regardless of the
originating country (US, England, France, Germany, Japan, Italy, etc).
Ray
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This isn't a reply to Ronan as much as to the thread in general. I've never
restricted any of my sales or auctions to the US only, but I can certainly see
why one would want to. It does take extra time and effort to sell
internationally; receiving the money and messing with shipping are a bit of a
pain.
I really don't consider international shipping, at least for smaller packages,
to be such a huge pain, though. I have a couple of postal scales at home
($10-15 for a 16 oz. scale at Staples--WELL worth the investment!!), and it's
easy enough to find out what something's going to cost by looking it up on the
USPS web site. The green forms are a pain, yes, but I usually keep a stack at
home and can fill them out but fast :-) My only real problem with the green
forms is that many buyers ask me to fill them out essentially dishonestly--to
undervalue things, or to call something a gift that they're paying cold hard
cash for. I find it frustrating that many governments want a piece of the
action on a $25 or $50 sale of toys between private collectors, but I also
think international buyers should either write it off as an unfortunate cost of
doing business or else take it up with their governments (well, OK, taking it
up with the government is unlikely to have any effect--but you get the
picture). Of course, we Americans are ones to talk--we can import $500 (or
more) worth of Lego without paying a red cent to the customs folks, as compared
to 15% or so on merchandise items valued above DM50 sent to Germany, and
whatever the costs are in Canada (equally painful, if I recall
correctly--especially with the automatic CND5 "service charge" or whatever they
call it just to look at your package).
I'll also point out that US sellers aren't the only ones who won't ship
internationally. Having bought stuff from ebay.de a number of times, I know
there are sellers there who only want to ship to Germany. Same problem for
them as for us--it's not a German-centric view of the universe that makes them
want to only sell their goods in Germany, but rather their desire not to deal
with the extra trouble and risk of international transactions. I've found that
contacting sellers before bidding and then following through by making sure to
pay promptly and include plenty of money to cover currency changing costs,
international banking fees, shipping costs etc. usually makes sellers much more
willing to sell to us "ugly Americans" ;-) On the flip side, I've usually had
very good experiences with international buyers--they usually realize it takes
a little extra work on my part and put in the extra effort to match.
Alan
In lugnet.general, Ronan Webb writes:
> I'm fed up with this on ebay/brickbay.
>
> What is it with you people ? Is your postal service that unsafe ?
> Or are just (backward) children in a play-pen? Duh !
> Grow up. You're not that fr*%^n central to the cosmos.
> Each time I see 'Will ship to United States only'' ...
> <censored>
> </censored>
>
> R. Webb
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Odd...just today I received a registered letter from Japan, and have in the
past from other countries as well (Estonia comes to mind, off hand). Had to go
to the post office and sign for it since I'm not home when they deliver. I
know that the USPS has different agreements with different international postal
services on issues like money orders as well--it must be that the USPS and the
British post don't see eye to eye on how to handle registered mail, because it
certainly appears that the USPS doesn't have a blanket policy against accepting
international registered mail.
Greetings,
Alan
> The interesting thing is, that whilst many of the replies to this have
> defended the USA postal service (words like 'Guaranteed'), it is
> disappointing that they do not seem to support any registered/recorded mail
> services coming in from overseas.
>
> I have shipped lego to several countries that support registered mail that
> ensures the reciever signs for it, and I get a tracking number from the UK
> post office that enables me to follow its progress. This is for standard
> registered mail, not some expensive courier service. Except I cant do this
> when sending to the USA.
>
> I cant confess to knowing that every country except the USA supports this,
> but it is interesting that the USA is singled out on the UK post office web
> site as the one country that doesnt.
>
> regards
> lawrence
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Kevin & All,
> I don't know where you and Rich are getting your padded envelopes, Scott. • I
> use padded envelopes for anything thin enough to go lettermail (under 20mm
> thick) and they cost me 45c CN each - that's 30c US. And I'm not buying • them
> bulk wholesale either, that's off the shelf at the Staples office supplies
> store.
I use the bubble ones, that were the cost difference lies. There has been
enough complaints on the padded ones to make me not use them. They are
cheaper, and less reliable, IMO.
> I also shake my head over the several people who complain about estimating
> the weight, getting packing materials, filling out forms etc.
Some people have differing opinions, there Kevin. I hear the people that are
complaining are the ones who might have to pay more than the postage.
> I ship over
> 100 packages a month, 95% to the US, and all of them have a customs form • on,
> a box, packaging material, etc. I don't run to the PO and weigh every
> package - most small parts lots come under the Small Packet heading and • it's
> easy to estimate which weight range they fall into (and if you can't
> estimate, kitchen scales do a good job). The only awkward ones are large
> sets which come expensive if you get the estimate wrong, those I do weigh.
Well, since I don't know what you do, or how you run things, I have to tell
you this: My site processes real time, and once the order is done, that's
it. I can't just say oh the shippings different, I will have to change your
order, etc. My site can handle weight, but since the LEGo items are such a
small weight, and I have no minimum and maximum, it can get tedious trying
to tweak it just right, but it is pretty good now after the first few shaky
months.
> Understand that I'm not saying US sellers don't have a right to say they
> won't sell outside the US. Undoubtedly, they do. But the packing and
> weighing and forms issue is a convenience thing only - if you don't feel
> like doing it, fine, but don't make it sound like it's some great onerous
> thing. I do it every day and it ain't.
Well, Kevin, I am really happy for you, but it is a little more complicated
for others, so we have a disagreement there. The forms I don't care about
either.
> > It is a potential chargable offense, and it is a risk.
>
> Here I agree. I am *really* annoyed by people who assume I am willing to • lie
> on the customs form for them. Luckily it's not an isse to teh US since
> there's no duty on Lego anyway.
Well, yes, doesn't that say something about shipping or not shipping to
other countries?
> Nothing to do with competition and free trade. Anything sold to a Canadian
> gets GST (=Federal SAles Tax) charged on it (with some exceptions like
> food). Lego has no duty charged on it, but Canada Post charges a $5 fee to
> collect whatever GST there is owing (very annoying when the GST is only
> 20c!). Not every package gets this hit, I assume they jst don't notive • every
> one. Sometimes I get a big package with nothing charged on it, and a small
> package and have to pay. Officially US customers are supposed to pay their
> State sales tax on stuff they by from out of state, right? (As are • Canadians
> supposed to self-assess Provincial sales tax, but nobody does...)
Depends on other factors in terms of outside the states sales tax, I know we
do in Michigan. I think it is just over regulation, IMO.
> The USPS requires custom forms to items to Canada if it is over a
> > pound. I do not know if it is a Candian or US regulation, I would assume • it
> > is a Canada request.
>
> Canada Post requires a customs form on ANYTHING going to the US which
> contains goods. Maybe that's a US request?
Maybe. I know if it is over a pound, it is required. If it is under, I do
not have too. Maybe it is the USPS.
Scott S.
--
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I discoverd something a few months back, and now seems an approriate time to
mention it.
Did you (generic you) know that it is prohibited to send Lego to Italy via the
USPS?
http://ircalc.usps.gov/prohibitions/Italy.htm
That page lists prohibitions for Italy, in the list it says "Toys not made
wholly of wood".
Nor, according to the list, can you send a deck of cards.
So, if you wanted to send a buddy a deck of cards and Lego to use as poker
chips, your living on the wrong side of the law man!! - as far as the USPS is
concerned.
Julie
In lugnet.general, Ronan Webb writes:
> I'm fed up with this on ebay/brickbay.
>
> What is it with you people ? Is your postal service that unsafe ?
> Or are just (backward) children in a play-pen? Duh !
> Grow up. You're not that fr*%^n central to the cosmos.
> Each time I see 'Will ship to United States only'' ...
> <censored>
> </censored>
>
> R. Webb
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In lugnet.general, Julie Krenz writes:
> I discoverd something a few months back, and now seems an approriate time to
> mention it.
>
> Did you (generic you) know that it is prohibited to send Lego to Italy via the
> USPS?
>
> http://ircalc.usps.gov/prohibitions/Italy.htm
> That page lists prohibitions for Italy, in the list it says "Toys not made
> wholly of wood".
Thats kinda crazy. So what happens when someone from Italy orders something
from my BrickBay store ? (someone has, twice already)
> Nor, according to the list, can you send a deck of cards.
>
> So, if you wanted to send a buddy a deck of cards and Lego to use as poker
> chips, your living on the wrong side of the law man!! - as far as the USPS is
> concerned.
Actually, I doubt that the USPS cares that much. Its probably an Italian customs
rule. Likewise, what happens if I get an order from an APO/FPO address where the
destination location (unbeknownst to me) is in Italy. I know that most (all ?)
APO addresses require a customs form.
I had one incident a few years ago where an ebay buyer wanted me to ship to an
APO address and kept insisting that no customs form was required. The USPS would
not accept the package without one.
Ray
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In lugnet.general, Ray Sanders writes:
> In lugnet.general, Adam Murtha writes:
>
> > And I don't even want to get started on those green forms. Gift,
> > merchandise, who really cares anyway. I still haven't figured out why it's
> > on there. Most of the packages I get that are not marked gift, require some
> > payment to be received from Canada Post, but not all of them for some
> > reason. I don't get it. I just try to avoid buying from the US when possible.
>
> The customs form is a requirement of the US post office in conjunction the the
> US Customs Service. How that form is treated on the receiving end (Canada is
> this case) is based on Canadian customs/duties laws. In the US, 'Construction
> Toys' are not charged an import duty. Canada seems to feel otherwise. If I ship
> a package with an incorrectly marked customs form, that would be a 'chargeable
> offense' (as someone else pointed out). I believe that this form is an
> international requirement under the International Postal Union.
I don't doubt that there are rules and regulations about those forms, and I
don't really want someone to have to deal with being charged with mail
fraud, or whatever that particular crime would be, especially over Lego.
> If someone is not happy about the charges, they should take it up with the
> customs (or elected) officials in their country, not with the seller. I believe
> that Canadian Customs would treat these forms exactly the same regardless of the
> originating country (US, England, France, Germany, Japan, Italy, etc).
>
> Ray
I might complain to customs or government or someone if it would be worth
it. I'm sure Canada Customs, or whoever will say "Since this guy doesn't
like this policy, we'll just get rid of it!" Not to sound like a jerk, I'm
just saying that I could write letter, call etc. until the end of time with
no change.
I'd rather just complain on LUGNET about it. ;-)
-Adam
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I do care about the other things, but since I'm not a Lego seller, I don't
have the experience in dealing with international and world wide buyers, so
I can't really say anything about how all the other things operate in
conjunction with each other. I was just commenting on how I see things as a
buyer not in the US.
Like I've said around here before, I don't want to have anyone arrested or
whatever, over a box of Lego. I'd rather pay the small fee, than hear about
Lego seller X who can't get bailed out of jail, because they can't pay with
Lego. ;-)
I would be happy if sellers were just more specific with what the 'shipping'
charge is. I don't mind paying for the packaging, be it a small envelope or
cardboard box the size of Volkswagon. And I know there are other costs, and
if the seller says there is a charge for shipping and handling, or
packaging, or whatever, I'll know I'm paying for shipping, and the box it
came in.
And I don't want sellers charging me now for the "new improved $10 envelope"
;-)
-Adam
In lugnet.market.theory, Scott Edward Sanburn writes:
> (Trying to redirect it to the proper group!)
>
> > I find it annoying as well.
>
> Now, now, Adam! ; )
>
> > And even if I ask nice enough, most people will
> > send me something, because I am in Canada. It seems most people are • worried
> > about overseas selling. I think that is understandable. I have not and
> > most likely will no purchase from overseas.
>
> It is a legitimate concern, especially when you are dealing with other
> governmental entities.
>
> > What bugs me are the people who charge a flat out rate for international
> > shipping, say $4 US. That's about $6 up here in Canada. Then I receive • the
> > package, which is more like an envelope, and has a shipping charge of less
> > than $2.
>
> Well, I charge flat rate shipping, because I have a hard time trying to
> weigh several pieces of LEGO items, the bags, stuffing, and the box, and
> trying to get an absolute number to charge. There are several additional
> costs to the postage, like those envelopes, which run anywhere from 0.75 to
> 2.00 each, so that 4.00 you mentioned is justifiable, IMO. There are other
> places that charge ridiculous amounts for shipping, like 8.00 ~9.00+ for a
> twenty dollar order, so if you pay as little more than the shipping costs,
> be glad. I make no money on shipping, let me assure you.
>
> > And I don't even want to get started on those green forms. Gift,
> > merchandise, who really cares anyway.
>
> It is a potential chargable offense, and it is a risk.
>
> > I still haven't figured out why it's
> > on there. Most of the packages I get that are not marked gift, require • some
> > payment to be received from Canada Post, but not all of them for some
> > reason. I don't get it. I just try to avoid buying from the US when
> possible.
>
> Well, the Canadian government is trying to squish out competition and free
> trade by putting charges on merchandise that comes in from outside of
> Canada. The USPS requires custom forms to items to Canada if it is over a
> pound. I do not know if it is a Candian or US regulation, I would assume it
> is a Canada request.
>
> > Ending rant...now.
>
> Well, Adam, you can rant all you want, but there are certain risks, costs,
> and other things that yous eem not to care about, and these reasons are why
> some people choose not to ship outside of the US, and sometimes, I feel the
> same way, especially after reading some posts in this thread.
>
> Scott S.
> --
> Want LEGO Elements at Great Prices?
> Visit The Sanburn Systems Company
> www.sanburnsystems.com
> Scott E. Sanburn, Owner
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Ray Sanders wrote:
>
> In lugnet.general, Julie Krenz writes:
> > I discoverd something a few months back, and now seems an approriate time to
> > mention it.
> >
> > Did you (generic you) know that it is prohibited to send Lego to Italy via the
> > USPS?
> >
> > http://ircalc.usps.gov/prohibitions/Italy.htm
> > That page lists prohibitions for Italy, in the list it says "Toys not made
> > wholly of wood".
>
> Thats kinda crazy. So what happens when someone from Italy orders something
> from my BrickBay store ? (someone has, twice already)
Wow, that list is ridiculous. Does anyone have any idea why half of
those items are on there. There are a bunch which make sensr (weapons,
hazardous materials etc.), but it looks like your options for sending
gifts to Italy are pretty limited.
Frank
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Hi Alan,
I think you have to differentiate between registered letters and parcels. From
Germany, I can send registered letters and "small parcels under 2kg" to the
USA, however the product "insured parcel", i.e. for shipments over 2kg as well
as those being too large for a "small parcel", cannot be actually sent with
insurance to the USA. I don't know if it's the only country but I suppose it's
the only one of the industrialized ones. In order to actually insure it you
would have to send it as a high-value parcel, incurring extra fees and you have
to mark it with a proprietary seal. Also, high-value letters are also not
allowed.
Judging from past experience by myself and other local Lego fans, it seems that
USPS is at fault for long delivery times, as the packages seem to be leaving
Germany fairly quickly (you can phone the post office and ask for the current
status). In fact, a box I sent via surface mail seven weeks ago still has not
arrived. An airmail "small parcel" once took four weeks!
Regards,
Torsten
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In lugnet.general, Alan Demlow writes:
<snip.
> I really don't consider international shipping, at least for smaller packages,
> to be such a huge pain, though. I have a couple of postal scales at home
> ($10-15 for a 16 oz. scale at Staples--WELL worth the investment!!), and it's
> easy enough to find out what something's going to cost by looking it up on the
> USPS web site.
Indeed. As a German-based Lego fan, I cannot comprehend what can possibly so
difficult in packing a box, putting it on a scales and looking up the postage
in a booklet or on the website? Or is there more to this over there?
> The green forms are a pain, yes,
Really? Why?
Contents: Lego toy set(s). value: whatever. gift: yes. signature. done.
> My only real problem with the green forms is that many buyers ask me to fill
> them out essentially dishonestly--to undervalue things, or to call something a
> gift that they're paying cold hardcash for.
What's so wrong about checking the "gift" box? About declaring a lower value,
well, if the consignee accepts the risk of underinsurance, then why not? The
seller has nothing to lose or gain by putting a value which is not the actual
sale price. The customs duties in some countries can make quite a difference.
> I find it frustrating that many governments want a piece of the
> action on a $25 or $50 sale of toys between private collectors, but I also
You're absolutely right.
> think international buyers should either write it off as an unfortunate cost
I disagree - see above.
> picture). Of course, we Americans are ones to talk--we can import $500 (or
> more) worth of Lego without paying a red cent to the customs folks, as
Lucky you... ;-)
> compared to 15% or so on merchandise items valued above DM50 sent to Germany,
Upto a declared value of DM 100 there's no duty.
Upto a declared value of DM 700 you have to pay a duty of 13.5%.
Above DM 700 the duty is 3.5% in addition to VAT of 16%.
> and whatever the costs are in Canada (equally painful, if I recall
> correctly--especially with the automatic CND5 "service charge" or whatever
> they call it just to look at your package).
Indeed, I did not know this, but what a rip-off.
> I'll also point out that US sellers aren't the only ones who won't ship
> internationally. Having bought stuff from ebay.de a number of times, I know
> there are sellers there who only want to ship to Germany. Same problem for
> them as for us--it's not a German-centric view of the universe that makes them
> want to only sell their goods in Germany, but rather their desire not to deal
> with the extra trouble and risk of international transactions. I've found
True, but do consider the language issue. As a buyer you choose yourself to bid
on a US seller's item, whereas the foreign seller wishing to post only
nationally cannot keep a US or whatever buyer from bidding.
> On the flip side, I've usually had very good experiences with international
> buyers--they usually realize it takes a little extra work on my part and put
> in the extra effort to match.
Indeed. I suppose the time issue is really what keeps most sellers from selling
beyond their own borders.
Regards,
Torsten
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In lugnet.general, Alan Demlow writes:
<snip.
> I really don't consider international shipping, at least for smaller packages,
> to be such a huge pain, though. I have a couple of postal scales at home
> ($10-15 for a 16 oz. scale at Staples--WELL worth the investment!!), and it's
> easy enough to find out what something's going to cost by looking it up on the
> USPS web site.
Indeed. As a German-based Lego fan, I cannot comprehend what can possibly so
difficult in packing a box, putting it on a scales and looking up the postage
in a booklet or on the website? Or is there more to this over there?
> The green forms are a pain, yes,
Really? Why?
Contents: Lego toy set(s). value: whatever. gift: yes. signature. done.
> My only real problem with the green forms is that many buyers ask me to fill
> them out essentially dishonestly--to undervalue things, or to call something a
> gift that they're paying cold hardcash for.
What's so wrong about checking the "gift" box? About declaring a lower value,
well, if the consignee accepts the risk of underinsurance, then why not? The
seller has nothing to lose or gain by putting a value which is not the actual
sale price. The customs duties in some countries can make quite a difference.
> I find it frustrating that many governments want a piece of the
> action on a $25 or $50 sale of toys between private collectors, but I also
You're absolutely right.
> think international buyers should either write it off as an unfortunate cost
I disagree - see above.
> picture). Of course, we Americans are ones to talk--we can import $500 (or
> more) worth of Lego without paying a red cent to the customs folks, as
Lucky you... ;-)
> compared to 15% or so on merchandise items valued above DM50 sent to Germany,
Upto a declared value of DM 100 there's no duty.
Upto a declared value of DM 700 you have to pay a duty of 13.5%.
Above DM 700 the duty is 3.5% in addition to VAT of 16%.
> and whatever the costs are in Canada (equally painful, if I recall
> correctly--especially with the automatic CND5 "service charge" or whatever
> they call it just to look at your package).
Indeed, I did not know this, but what a rip-off.
> I'll also point out that US sellers aren't the only ones who won't ship
> internationally. Having bought stuff from ebay.de a number of times, I know
> there are sellers there who only want to ship to Germany. Same problem for
> them as for us--it's not a German-centric view of the universe that makes them
> want to only sell their goods in Germany, but rather their desire not to deal
> with the extra trouble and risk of international transactions. I've found
True, but do consider the language issue. As a buyer you choose yourself to bid
on a US seller's item, whereas the foreign seller wishing to post only
nationally cannot keep a US or whatever buyer from bidding.
> On the flip side, I've usually had very good experiences with international
> buyers--they usually realize it takes a little extra work on my part and put
> in the extra effort to match.
Indeed. I suppose the time issue is really what keeps most sellers from selling
beyond their own borders.
Regards,
Torsten
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In lugnet.general, Torsten Fresemann writes:
> In lugnet.general, Alan Demlow writes:
> > The green forms are a pain, yes,
> Really? Why?
> Contents: Lego toy set(s). value: whatever. gift: yes. signature. done.
>
> > My only real problem with the green forms is that many buyers ask me to fill
> > them out essentially dishonestly--to undervalue things, or to call something
> > a gift that they're paying cold hardcash for.
> What's so wrong about checking the "gift" box? About declaring a lower value,
> well, if the consignee accepts the risk of underinsurance, then why not? The
> seller has nothing to lose or gain by putting a value which is not the actual
> sale price. The customs duties in some countries can make quite a difference.
Well, some people probably feel that it is dishonest, because it *isn't* a
gift. But even discounting that, in most countries, it's mail fraud, and
illegal.
> > I find it frustrating that many governments want a piece of the
> > action on a $25 or $50 sale of toys between private collectors, but I also
> You're absolutely right.
>
> > think international buyers should either write it off as an unfortunate cost
> I disagree - see above.
You're welcome to disagree, obviously, so long as you don't complain if your
goverment catches you and charges you.
> > picture). Of course, we Americans are ones to talk--we can import $500 (or
> > more) worth of Lego without paying a red cent to the customs folks, as
> Lucky you... ;-)
>
> > compared to 15% or so on merchandise items valued above DM50 sent to Germany,
> Upto a declared value of DM 100 there's no duty.
> Upto a declared value of DM 700 you have to pay a duty of 13.5%.
> Above DM 700 the duty is 3.5% in addition to VAT of 16%.
>
> > and whatever the costs are in Canada (equally painful, if I recall
> > correctly--especially with the automatic CND5 "service charge" or whatever
> > they call it just to look at your package).
> Indeed, I did not know this, but what a rip-off.
Somewhat. The $5 CND that gets charged is a brokerage & processing fee to
assess the GST (federal tax). I'll happily pay $5 instead of the $30 or $40
that UPS charges for the same service, or the $20+ that it would cost to go
through a brokerage firm.
Obviously, I'd just rather that I didn't have to pay it - and I'll grumble
about it as much as the next guy - but it's cheaper than anyone else around.
James
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In lugnet.market.theory, Scott Edward Sanburn writes:
>
> Well, the Canadian government is trying to squish out competition and free
> trade by putting charges on merchandise that comes in from outside of
> Canada. The USPS requires custom forms to items to Canada if it is over a
> pound. I do not know if it is a Candian or US regulation, I would assume it
> is a Canada request.
Kevin already covered the incoming fees issue.
I've sent LEGO to the USA, Australia, and Japan. All of them require
a Customs form (more like a little green sticker) be completed. Each
sticker is specific to the country it's going to it seems (or at
the very least the USA requires a special one, probably for NAFTA).
It's not unique to packages entering Canada from the USA..., I'd
hazard to guess it's pretty much universal.
> Well, Adam, you can rant all you want, but there are certain risks, costs,
> and other things that yous eem not to care about, and these reasons are why
> some people choose not to ship outside of the US, and sometimes, I feel the
> same way, especially after reading some posts in this thread.
As far as I'm concerned people are free to choose where they will
ship to. But here's how my shipping methods work in Canada. Order
comes in, I measure up the sets stacked in the smallest volume
possible. I have learned that *all* LEGO sets will have shipping
charged by volume and not weight because their density is so low. The
"minimum density" that gets applied is an internation standard
so most all countries will calculate the effective weight the same
way. I calculate this weight in all of 15 seconds..., no scale
is required. I then use the Canada Post or UPS or whoever web
sites and look up the rates. I am almost never wrong on the
cost when I get it all packed up and to the post office for
shipping. Thus I can quote exact shipping costs to someone
in a few minutes before they even have to commit to an order.
And I've checked..., the USPS have all the same tables/calculators
on-line as well. So I see no reason for people in the USA to
say shipping to international is "too hard" or whatever.
But again, everybody is free to do whatever they want :]
KDJ
_______________________________________
LUGNETer #203, Windsor, Ontario, Canada
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Torsten Fresemann wrote:
>
> In lugnet.general, Alan Demlow writes:
> <snip.
> > I really don't consider international shipping, at least for smaller packages,
> > to be such a huge pain, though. I have a couple of postal scales at home
> > ($10-15 for a 16 oz. scale at Staples--WELL worth the investment!!), and it's
> > easy enough to find out what something's going to cost by looking it up on the
> > USPS web site.
> Indeed. As a German-based Lego fan, I cannot comprehend what can possibly so
> difficult in packing a box, putting it on a scales and looking up the postage
> in a booklet or on the website? Or is there more to this over there?
This assumes one has a scale. Making a trip to the Post Office is a pain
for some folks. If you go at lunch, or right when they open, or right
before they close, the lines are often horrid (30-45 minute waits).
> > The green forms are a pain, yes,
> Really? Why?
> Contents: Lego toy set(s). value: whatever. gift: yes. signature. done.
>
> > My only real problem with the green forms is that many buyers ask me to fill
> > them out essentially dishonestly--to undervalue things, or to call something a
> > gift that they're paying cold hardcash for.
> What's so wrong about checking the "gift" box? About declaring a lower value,
> well, if the consignee accepts the risk of underinsurance, then why not? The
> seller has nothing to lose or gain by putting a value which is not the actual
> sale price. The customs duties in some countries can make quite a difference.
>
> > I find it frustrating that many governments want a piece of the
> > action on a $25 or $50 sale of toys between private collectors, but I also
> You're absolutely right.
>
> > think international buyers should either write it off as an unfortunate cost
> I disagree - see above.
While as a Libertarian, I disagree with import duties, but then it is
also not my place to violate the laws of your country. Since there is a
possibility that customs agents will seize improperly marked items, I'm
rather unwilling to lie since the possibility is the sender never hears
about it and then I get socked with a complaint about a missing item.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do about sending stuff to Italy now that
I see that LEGO is effectively prohibited.
I also do feel that sorry, it is purely the buyer's responsibility to
deal with the import duties, taxes, and fees. If you feel they are
outrageous, then do something about it, don't whine to me.
The one thing I will do is mark items "gift" when they are a trade with
a well known person, but even that is some risk.
> > picture). Of course, we Americans are ones to talk--we can import $500 (or
> > more) worth of Lego without paying a red cent to the customs folks, as
> Lucky you... ;-)
Not lucky. We just realize that the more free the market is, the better
things are overall.
Frank
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Kyle & All,
> on-line as well. So I see no reason for people in the USA to
> say shipping to international is "too hard" or whatever.
It isn't hard in some cases, it is just different. it is harder to sell
outside the US because there is in some cases, more work, more problems,
etc. Refer to my earlier posts to see how my shipping and real time
processing works. There are more factors than shipping costs, there are
other items as well, which have been discussed already. If people want to
sell internationally, fine, if not, that's fine too. There is more risk, and
more work involved, from my perspective. Some people don't think it is worth
it. it is there choice. I wish there were no tariffs and trade taxes, etc.
but I think since I saw in your sig that you are from Canada, and that it is
esier to seel from Canada to the US than the other way around, and you don't
have to feel bad when you ship to Canada and have to fill out that form.
Disagree or not, there are legimate reasons and both sides, and I can
symphasize for both sides. I am certainly on both, I do sell
internationally, but it is harder and more costly and less secure.
Scott S.
--
Want LEGO Elements at Great Prices?
Visit The Sanburn Systems Company
www.sanburnsystems.com
Scott E. Sanburn, Owner
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In lugnet.market.theory, Kyle D. Jackson writes:
> And I've checked..., the USPS have all the same tables/calculators
> on-line as well. So I see no reason for people in the USA to
> say shipping to international is "too hard" or whatever.
Yeah, they're online. And they're also not 100% clear on what exactly
pushes a package from some cheap rate into a more expensive one. Say
whatever you want but you've just looked at them online. I've looked at
them online, told someone to send me $x.xx for shipping based on my
interpretation of the online tables, only to have some postal clerk decide
it had to go a different rate at the post office - costing me sometimes
double in shipping.
So you can "see no reason" if you want - but there are reasons, and the
actual trouble of dealing with international shipping happens to be one of
the smaller reasons for me - at least the trouble of consulting different
tables/calculators. Then there is the trouble of maintaining separate
inventories of boxes and tape and labels (since the USPS gives me ones for
Priority Mail for free). Then there would be the trouble of waiting for
international payment - or being forced to upgrade to a premier Paypal
account to accept Paypal CC payments from international customers. The
trouble of filling out forms. Yeah, maybe it only takes a minute or so -
that's a minute I don't have to spend filling out a form if I sell to
someone in Michigan or California.
Lots of different kinds of trouble. From what I've seen from the Canadian
sellers you'd be foolish to restrict your selling to your country - you guys
just don't account for much of the buying power. From what I've seen in my
own experiences, selling internationally for a few years then deciding not
to anymore, I'm not taking that big a hit, and for the hit I am taking, I'm
willing to accept it to avoid all the "trouble".
> But again, everybody is free to do whatever they want :]
Yep. Everybody tries to do what's right for them. For me, reaching my
fairly decent sized group of regular (and regularly growing group of
first-time) buyers is good enough. I could probably add up all the
international sales I made over a few year period and they wouldn't add up
to as much as I've sold to a half dozen or so regular American buyers (and
that's not even counting Larry just to be fair). I'm pretty satisfied
serving my limited market - since it is probably larger than all the others
combined. :)
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"Kyle D. Jackson" <flightdeck@sympatico.deletethisspamblock.ca> wrote in
message news:G7wG0z.E4t@lugnet.com...
> > Well, Adam, you can rant all you want, but there are certain risks, • costs,
> > and other things that yous eem not to care about, and these reasons are • why
> > some people choose not to ship outside of the US, and sometimes, I feel • the
> > same way, especially after reading some posts in this thread.
>
> As far as I'm concerned people are free to choose where they will
> ship to. But here's how my shipping methods work in Canada. Order
> comes in, I measure up the sets stacked in the smallest volume
> possible. I have learned that *all* LEGO sets will have shipping
> charged by volume and not weight because their density is so low. The
> "minimum density" that gets applied is an internation standard
> so most all countries will calculate the effective weight the same
> way. I calculate this weight in all of 15 seconds..., no scale
Is that only for LEGO packed in the original boxes? I've got a fair bit of
LEGO I'm sorting out and it weighs around 10kg, and it's in a box around
about 40cm by 30cm by 25cm but it's not MISB in original boxes - it's all
bagged, ready for me to send it wherever I want to send it. When I had the
weight checked, Australia Post here never mentioned anything about volume
charges ...
> is required. I then use the Canada Post or UPS or whoever web
> sites and look up the rates. I am almost never wrong on the
> cost when I get it all packed up and to the post office for
> shipping. Thus I can quote exact shipping costs to someone
> in a few minutes before they even have to commit to an order.
> And I've checked..., the USPS have all the same tables/calculators
> on-line as well. So I see no reason for people in the USA to
> say shipping to international is "too hard" or whatever.
>
> But again, everybody is free to do whatever they want :]
Yes, but not all countries have postal rates you can use on them to
calculate shipping costs, so it's sometimes a case of take it to the post
office and see what they say.
As for Australia, I happen to know that Australia Post has shipping rate
tables for overseas shipping, covers air, economy air [1] and surface mail.
They even have a web form where you can put in what you know about your
parcel, and out comes an approximate cost.
Cheers ...
Geoffrey Hyde
[1] Often known in some countries as SAL or surface air-lift. They use a
plane to get it from one shore to another, but it then goes by surface
instead of getting air freighted to the nearest capital city or airport near
the destination.
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Torsten Fresemann wrote in message ...
> What's so wrong about checking the "gift" box? About declaring a lower • value,
> well, if the consignee accepts the risk of underinsurance, then why not? • The
> seller has nothing to lose or gain by putting a value which is not the • actual
> sale price. The customs duties in some countries can make quite a
difference.
What's so wrong? a) it's a lie, and b) it's illegal.
Another way to save on incoming duty and tax (especially if it's parts
you're shipping) can be to describe the contents as USED toys. In some
places (the UK at least) that makes a difference and even what we describe
as "new" parts (sorted straight from new sets into bags and sold) are "used"
from the point of view of customs - they've been bought, boxes opened and
pieces removed and done things with. MISB sets would be about the only thing
you can't do this with.
Kevin
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Victorian House: Limited edition kit
http://www.lionsgatemodels.com/cat-vblu.htm
Craftsman Kits & Custom Lego models: http://www.lionsgatemodels.com
Brickbay store: http://www.brickbay.com/store.asp?p=Kevinw1
eBay auctions: http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/kevinw1/
Personal Lego Web page:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kwilson_tccs/lego.html
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In lugnet.general, Torsten Fresemann writes:
> Hi Alan,
>
> I think you have to differentiate between registered letters and parcels. From
> Germany, I can send registered letters and "small parcels under 2kg" to the
> USA, however the product "insured parcel", i.e. for shipments over 2kg as well
> as those being too large for a "small parcel", cannot be actually sent with
> insurance to the USA. I don't know if it's the only country but I suppose it's
> the only one of the industrialized ones. In order to actually insure it you
> would have to send it as a high-value parcel, incurring extra fees and you have
> to mark it with a proprietary seal. Also, high-value letters are also not
> allowed.
That's odd. How "high value" is high-value? I've received
registered letters from Japan containing a declared US$1000
before.
As far as over-2kg parcels being signed for, usually another
shipping company has been used, in my experience. However
I have never sent a registered parcel from the USPS of that
size--the cost is astronomical to do so.
> Judging from past experience by myself and other local Lego fans, it seems that
> USPS is at fault for long delivery times, as the packages seem to be leaving
> Germany fairly quickly (you can phone the post office and ask for the current
> status). In fact, a box I sent via surface mail seven weeks ago still has not
> arrived. An airmail "small parcel" once took four weeks!
One never knows fully where the holdup is. I received two packages
from Germany in the 8 months--the first took three days (it was a
payment), the second took two weeks and was a package of about 200g.
However I have had this sort of thing happen to and from other
countries as well, and this variance has also held while I have
not been in the US. Domestic post is almost always going to be
more reliable than foreign post--too many ghosts in the machine,
I suppose. I have only once ever had a USPS-originated package go
missing, but that might just as easily have been stolen at the
point of delivery, as the confirmation code indicated it had been
delivered. It does not necessarily follow that the USPS is the
ogre of inefficiency.
Oddly a lot of the delays in international shipping have to do with
dispatch--they sit at the point of departure, having already been
marked "sent" abroad, or they sit at the point of receipt, having
not been checked through customs yet. And sometimes the bizarre
happens: I had a letter to South Africa that somehow was so
totally doused in water that all of the printer ink washed away,
leaving only greenish smudges behind! Thankfully I had used a
ball pen to write the recipient's address and my email address
on the envelope, or it would have been totally lost.
However in the Netherlands, I have been getting my mail quickly and
efficiently from all corners of the world. All hail PTT Post! :)
best
Lindsay
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"Frank Filz" <ffilz@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3A7393A3.B1B5F560@mindspring.com...
> > > http://ircalc.usps.gov/prohibitions/Italy.htm
> > > That page lists prohibitions for Italy, in the list it says "Toys not • made
> > > wholly of wood".
> >
> > Thats kinda crazy. So what happens when someone from Italy orders • something
> > from my BrickBay store ? (someone has, twice already)
>
> Wow, that list is ridiculous. Does anyone have any idea why half of
> those items are on there. There are a bunch which make sensr (weapons,
> hazardous materials etc.), but it looks like your options for sending
> gifts to Italy are pretty limited.
Most countries seem to have a very, very long list of controlled or
prohibitied items that seem to make no sense but are often to do with
international trade relationships than anything to do with the consumer.
Often the list is specific to the two importing and exporting countries, so
it is OK to import an item from one country but not from another, or the
import duty varies by country depending on trade agreements.
I remember my farther having a UK customs manual (he was in import/export)
and it was like an encyclopedia britannica!
regards
lawrence
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[FUT: lugnet.market.shipping]
In lugnet.market.theory, Geoffrey Hyde writes:
>
> "Kyle D. Jackson" <flightdeck@sympatico.deletethisspamblock.ca> wrote in
> >
> > As far as I'm concerned people are free to choose where they will
> > ship to. But here's how my shipping methods work in Canada. Order
> > comes in, I measure up the sets stacked in the smallest volume
> > possible. I have learned that *all* LEGO sets will have shipping
> > charged by volume and not weight because their density is so low. The
> > "minimum density" that gets applied is an internation standard
> > so most all countries will calculate the effective weight the same
> > way. I calculate this weight in all of 15 seconds..., no scale
>
> Is that only for LEGO packed in the original boxes? I've got a fair bit of
> LEGO I'm sorting out and it weighs around 10kg, and it's in a box around
> about 40cm by 30cm by 25cm but it's not MISB in original boxes - it's all
> bagged, ready for me to send it wherever I want to send it. When I had the
> weight checked, Australia Post here never mentioned anything about volume
> charges ...
Yeah, sorry, it is for sets in the original boxes. There's a lot of
air inside LEGO sets. When you load a plane, truck, etc., you are
space-limited. That air you're shipping takes up the space of a lot
of other packages. So they make the air really heavy and charge you
accordingly by weight :] The int'l standard I referred to says you
take the volume (in cm^3) and divide by 6000 to get kg. (Somebody
can work out the number for other length units, I've got to go get
ready for work.) Every set I've shipped has had this "fake weight"
higher than actual, and that's what determines the shipping. The
closest one I've had to going buy its actual weight was I think
the 4561 train set. It's heavy and packed pretty tight.
Anyhow, you can now see that adding packing material around the set
will increase shipping costs dramatically, because the volume shoots
way up. As a result I make custom boxes (cardboard "shells") to
put around the sets for protection. It seems to work as long as no
one sits on the package :]
Gotta go,
KDJ
_______________________________________
LUGNETer #203, Windsor, Ontario, Canada
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