 | | Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —William R. Ward
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| | | The LDRAW tools (including MLCAD) are available for free download in binary form. But the source code is kept private. I'd like to offer a word of encouragement to the authors and maintainers of the code to consider opening the source code. This (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Orion Pobursky
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| | | | | (...) For the record there are a number of LDraw tools that are open source. Here's a (incomplete) list: LDLite LDGLite LDraw Design Pad LDList LSynth Mac Brick Cad The open source initiative is great and I fully support it but the main thing going (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —William R. Ward
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| | | | | | (...) Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. However, they represent only a portion of the LDRAW tool set. (...) I hope that's not an accusation. For the sake of civility I will assume you are not talking about me in particular. Open Source is a great way (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Orion Pobursky
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| | | | | | (...) Absolutly not. You asked without demanding. That goes a long way with me. Like I said, the vast majority of the open source proponents are helpful and courteous. It's a small portion of the community that ruins it for some. -Orion (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Daniel Bennett
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| | | | | Hi. I like being able to say, “That’s mine that is.” about programs I write. With open source you can say, “I started that.” Both of which I think are great things to be able to say but personally I prefer the first one. It could just be chance that (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —William R. Ward
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| | | | | | (...) Well, it depends on how you structure it. Some open source projects have a single developer managing it and occasional patches being sent in, while others are more of a group effort. I think that "That's mine that is" still applies in the (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Tore Eriksson
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| | | | | I can only speak for myself. I am a self-made programmer with huge voids in my programming skills. I am probably breaking every existing convention of good programming habits. I already know that, and I don't wish to have that confirmed those who (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | (...) This is just curiosity, and feel free not to answer. To clarify, you don't want people criticizing the code you put your energy into? Or, do you not want people replacing your code with 'perfectly correct' code? As for the open source (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —William R. Ward
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I don't think anyone said you have to insist anything. I just think that Open Source would fit in well with the philosophy of Ldraw.org, and would provide an avenue for code to be improved without depending on one person to do it all. After (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I was speaking abstractly. (...) Yes, I agree. And it was good that you brought the topic up - I'm glad it will get developers thinking about open source. -Tim (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Tore Eriksson
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| | | | | | | | (...) That is closest. (...) I am not familiar to the exact meaning of open source, but I guess it can be a little like when you submit the dat code for a part to the PT. Suddenly you find that it has been changed or even renamed. In almost all (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I understand the feeling. For me, when I open up my work (I don't code, but I do write, papers, a book, proposals, etc) to others, I expect and welcome criticism, so long as it is framed constructively. If I were to venture a guess, you aren't (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | submission policy at the PT (Was: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source?) —Willy Tschager
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| | | | | | | | (...) [SNIP] (...) even if you re-think that policy it'll happen anyway. almost a year ago some guidelines have been posted (URL) about re-submitting fixes of new parts (new parts not updated ones) but unless the PT doesn't restrict the (...) (20 years ago, 16-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | (...) I'm trained and skilled in programming, but I learned the Borland C++ builder environment as I went. I have yet to figure out how to split my files into subsystems. I tried it and had trouble getting it to work for LPub. As it stands, LPub is (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Andrew Allan
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| | | | | Bill As has been pointed out, many of the programs (including mine) have freely available source code. Several people have suggested I post my application on SourceForge and develop from there, this has merits and is used by Don with LdGLite, (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | (...) I gave away the source to LSynth and publicly asked for help, given that it really has never made it past the proof of concept stage. No one has taken me up on it, so going open source, does not neccessadily get you anywhere. (...) Kevin (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Jason S. Mantor
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| | | | | | | I'll be the first to appologize for not having jumped in on this yet : ( It's on my list of things that I want to make time for though : ) The problem here isn't the OSS paradigm, it's the relatively small audience. It can only grow though ... (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | | | (...) Yes, with a wider audience or a desperate need, it's much more likely someone will be brave enough to jump in and contribute. It also helps if the project seems active. I tried to generate some activity by making a portable version of the (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | In lugnet.cad, Don Heyse wrote: <snip> (...) I expect people to ask me. (...) LSynth is an all in one synthesizer in that it does hose and band type synthesis, and it is stand alone, and the synthesis process does not involve manual copying of stuff (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Orion Pobursky
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Don't forget LDDP's generator (soon to be a plugin again). It's based on Fredrik Glockner's emacs code and supports: 73590B.DAT Hose Flexible 8.5L with Tabs (750.dat for endpoints) 73590A.DAT Hose Flexible 8.5L without Tabs (752.dat for (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Cool! I actually like the plugin idea even better than open source (although the two ideas do work together well). In my LDRAW fantasy world (which is probably based on Karim's Artemis paper) all the really nifty functionality is provided by (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Orion Pobursky
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Yes, I think we can go in that direction. It would certainly make updating errors a lot simpler. And since most of LDDP's functions manipulate the text in some way it's easily doable. (...) No, but there is hope. See above -Orion (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Then you should suggest that on the web page, or in the book. People forget what they discussed on lugnet after a week or so. [snip: many, many lsynth features. It's time for me to buy the book] (...) That sounds good, but will lsynthcp still (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | In lugnet.cad, Don Heyse wrote: <snip> (...) a library sort of thing, like Lars taught me about L3P. (...) I don't like the getopt format because it is so different than standard issue meta-commands. (...) Well, I have to get hooked in and put in a (...) (20 years ago, 16-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Ah, that's good to hear. (...) Waitaminute!! That's what I said a year ago, but you appeared to get suckered in by the getopt proposal. Oh well. (...) Short instructions: (URL) instructions: (URL) instructions: (URL) Another thing I'd like to (...) (20 years ago, 16-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Well, I actually want to take this kind of thing to the LSC for review. (...) I had not made it this far. I had just made it to the concept phase. There are a few things that control hose synthesis; hose type, hose segment part type, segment (...) (20 years ago, 16-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Steve Bliss
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Actually, I'd very much like to figure what definition information can be put in part files, and how model files could then specify the specific way the part is deformed. Steve (20 years ago, 19-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) OK Steve, I'll work up a proposal. Kevin (20 years ago, 19-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Hi Steve, I'm still trying to understand this terse response. Right now, LSynth uses meta commands and part usages to define constraints for the synthesis process. LSynth performs in-line synthesis. That is to say, it does not spit out the (...) (20 years ago, 22-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Steve Bliss
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Yes. What I'm envisioning is two meta-commands (or sets of meta-commands) that would be used to model flexible parts. One meta-command would go in part files, and would define how a specific flexible part behaves -- is it fixed length/variable (...) (20 years ago, 25-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Willy Tschager
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| | | | | | | | "Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:Hw8349.ECC@lugnet.com... (...) this is good news, indeed! just out of curiosity, on which basis will they ultimatelly interact? have you sorted out this dll-exe issue? (...) w. (20 years ago, 16-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | (...) Michael, did I mispeak on this one? I know you were considering it. (...) MLCad will have to use lsynthcp program. There are no plans to make a dll. (...) Kevin (20 years ago, 17-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Willy Tschager
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| | | | | | | | (...) my memory is not clear on this 'cos I was only involved at the very beginning back in september/october, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know the dll/exe issue was the key point in the whole story. hmm ... I might missed out (...) (20 years ago, 17-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —James Reynolds
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| | | | | | (...) That is my experience. Nobody has said anything about the source code I have posted. And not all of it was my yucky code, but some awesome OpenGL code written by an OpenGL wiz. And I have tried to read both ldglite, MBC, and LDView source (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Orion Pobursky
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| | | | | | (...) I have the beginnings of this with the DATBase, DATModel, and L3Check units used for LDDP. I've been considering splintering these units off into their own project. The only thing hindering me is the (apparent) lack of Delphi programmers in (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Anders Isaksson
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| | | | | | "Orion Pobursky" <orion@dontaddthis.p...ursky.com> skrev i meddelandet news:Hw88DL.1D7H@lugnet.com... (...) units used (...) own (...) I'm using Delphi 5 (Both at work and for fun). Haven't really looked much at LDDP yet but the plugin architecture (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Orion Pobursky
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| | | | | | | (...) I'm fairly certain that my DATBase and L3Check units (individual linetype manipulating classes and Error checking from L3P code) are compatible with a variety of Pascal compliers. DATModel (classes for model level maniplation) may pose a (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | (...) You should take a peek at it. I use it to open an ldlist part finder window so I can drag and drop parts into ldglite. Hey that reminds me, the new colored fonts in ldlist 4 look bad on my system. Here's a picture: (URL) font used in the (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Anders Isaksson
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| | | | | | | (...) Ugh! That's probably because I went the 'Ownerdraw' route to get the colors. I'll take a look at it when real life permits (couple of weeks...). -- Anders Isaksson, Sweden BlockCAD: (2 URLs) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Anders Isaksson
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| | | | | | (...) -- Anders Isaksson, Sweden BlockCAD: (2 URLs) (20 years ago, 16-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | (...) It's the same file. Are you having another bad day with case sensitive filesystems? Don (20 years ago, 16-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Anders Isaksson
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| | | | | | (...) This is very strange. If I download from the above link, I get the new version (4.1 from Apr. 16), but it still doesn't follow the 'Large fonts' setting?!? I'll have to dig deeper into this... -- Anders Isaksson, Sweden BlockCAD: (2 URLs) (20 years ago, 16-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | (...) Hmmm, maybe Mozilla fooled me by reusing a download from the cache. I used wget on a different machine and got the one from the 16th. I'll have to get back to you when I get a chance to test it on the large font system though. Don (20 years ago, 17-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | Ok, I tested it on my Large Font system and ldlist 4.1 looks good! Thanks, Don (20 years ago, 19-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Anders Isaksson
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| | | | | | (...) Thanks, I presume you don't run Windows XP on that Large Font system? It seems XP implements Large Fonts differently, to ensure that programs created with Borland Delphi does not scale well :-( -- Anders Isaksson, Sweden BlockCAD: (2 URLs) (20 years ago, 19-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Bill Fitzgerald
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| | | | As a programmer for some 28+ years I have extreme reservations about Open source or as i call it "socialized" programming. The entire concept of open source flies in the face of intellectual property rights. That being who owns the rights to (...) (20 years ago, 16-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —Peter Howkins
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| | | | (...) I spent a bit of time working out how to reply to this mail without coming across as an open source zealot :) (...) I always thought open source relied on the concept of copyright (one of the 3 major concepts in intellectual property). It is (...) (20 years ago, 16-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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| | | | | | Re: Why aren't LDRAW tools Open Source? —James Reynolds
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| | | | (...) And I would like to publicly like to thank Don Heyse for LDGLite and Travis Cobbs for LDView. Special thanks go to Don Heyse since his application is basically the father of all Mac OS LDraw editors (except one that isn't being worked on and (...) (20 years ago, 17-Apr-04, to lugnet.cad)
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