Subject:
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Re: Story crafting (was Re: Please read this!
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lugnet.publish
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Date:
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Mon, 23 Dec 2002 21:35:02 GMT
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3240 times
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In lugnet.publish, Matt Hein writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > In lugnet.castle, Matt Hein writes:
>
> > True, but we are talking about storycraft, not castle construction. On
> > reflection, publish is the right place I think. (and not o-t.geek either)
>
> Very well.
>
> > Yes I have. I have not read all of it but I think much of what others said
> > applies. I found it hard to get the mood, hard to get into the characters
> > motivations (a good story hooks you in right away and makes you want to read
> > more) and somewhat overwhelmed by all the adjectives and modifiers. They get
> > in the way, and if anything, confuse me.
> > Let's take a few things from this section which if I understand it is an
> > intro or review http://www.lugnet.com/~1112/Fantasy/Osprey (if it's not, I
> > can't tell exactly where to start, you may want to consider a table of
> > contents or arranging the stories one connected to the next)
>
> Okay, I'm working on that and a small index.
Great. Now, a note...
The samples I picked were just that, samples. I chose a few to illustrate a
point, not that if you fix these you're all set. They're characteristic of
much of the work that I read.
> > what does this mean: "conniving in his presence" Was he conniving something?
> > Is conniving a mannerism? Why not say that he seemed untrustworthy or
> > whatever you're trying to convey? How can a presence be conniving?
>
> Hmm...you've got a point there. Perhaps I was
> trying to convey that he was rather evasive (?)
> Evasive to reveal his opinion?
You're often better off not characterising characters, believe it or not. At
least in my view. Let their actions (or their interactions with others via
dialogs) speak for themselves and then let the reader draw their own
conclusions. If you are using first person (the story is told from the point
of view of a character and that character is speaking or narrating what
transpired) you can let the character draw conclusions, but near as I can
tell, you're not using first person. So present the evidence and let the
reader decide what it means.
Balance is needed. Don't insult the reader's intelligence by making it all
TOO obvious. Even bad guys have good reasons (in their world view) for what
they do unless they are just out and out insane (which is not very
interesting to read about). But don't obscure things with multilayer
similies and analogies either.
>
> > What does this mean: "Skye looked towards the alomst falconic clouds"
> > How can clouds be falconic? Does it mean that she saw falcons in the images
> > that we imagine clouds to contain? Or almost falcons? Or did the clouds
> > somehow have some other trait that falcons possess?
>
> Hmm...okay, the clouds were almost shaped like that
> of a falcon. I was going forthe motion of comparing
> the shadows projected by the clouds like that of
> the shadows of a falcon's wings.
So say that the clouds projected a shadow that looked like a falcon. State
what happened or what the character saw, or even what the character thought
it looked like, if you must get it across and you can't think of another way
to do it, and let the reader draw their own inferences.
On another slightly related note, don't be afraid of "he said." Full stop.
There is no need to say, for example "he said, slyly" or "he intimated" or
whatever. Let the characters words show the tone, or use a sentence before
that to set the mood.
> > Moreover, why does it matter? Is this a foreboding of something? How does
> > this help advance the story or set the mood?
>
> Hmm, I sense a small omittion in progress here.
Omission.
Another piece of advice you've been given that's worth repeating is to use a
spell checker. Then check the results of it. Then check your sentence
structure for danglers, for excessive length, for clarity and so on.
Even in your writing ABOUT your writing (such as here), you should do so.
Because even this writing has an audience. You need to draw us (the critics)
in and want us to help you so don't make it hard for us. Don't get defensive
about it, you're asking for criticism and you're getting it. But make it
engaging for us to help. And ask questions about why we asked things or what
we meant.
> I'll cut out the irrelevant detail, I believe I
> was rdeundant in description.
Cutting is good, and so is adding and revising. But have a plan for what to
cut and what to keep.
What are you trying to get across to the reader? If you could have the
reader sum up what they saw or what happened in the chapter in a few
sentences, what would they be? Write those down or keep them in your head,
then rewrite the chapter and give the reader what they need to draw that
conclusion without telegraphing it to them.
> > or this: "they had a rather flamboyant discussion at heart, I might add...”
> > What makes a discussion flamboyant? I thought flamboyant was a manner of
> > dress or action. It is a description of how a character looks or acts. And
> > if it was flamboyant at heart, what was it at the center?
>
> Okay, I might have worded it oddly.
> The sction the militancy council had
> was viewed by Dash as flamboyant.
> At heart suggests that probably only
> Dash found it flamboyant, but few others
> did.
How does flamboyant at heart suggest that? At heart means at the center, but
can imply that outside appearances are possibly different. Were they
different? Is the flamboyance of the *discussion* (positing that a
discussion can be so rather than a person) central to the story? I would
have Dsth say something a bit more clear about what he means if he is with
someone he trusts and respects and wants to bring in on things, or not even
say anything at all if not.
Also what does this mean in your explanation:
> The sction the militancy council had
> was viewed by Dash as flamboyant
What's a sction?
What is a militancy council?
Militancy is a state of mind, typically, not a sort of government. Avoid
introducing new or made up words if you can. If you must, do it very very
sparingly. And if you do make sure that it is extremely clear what the
context is. UNLESS your goal is to have the reader wondering what you mean.
Consider the opening sentence from _The Wild Seed_ by Octavia Butler. (I
can't take credit for this example, OSC uses it in the book I urged you to
get, and I am regurgitating (not as well and not in the same order) some of
what he said) )
http://www.twbookmark.com/books/89/0446606723/chapter_excerpt312.html
"Doro discovered the woman by accident when he went to see what was left of
one of his seed villages."
No new words are used. But the reader is instantly hooked... what is a seed
village? We know what seeds are and what villages are... but what do they
mean together? And how would a person regard a village (of whatever sort) as
"one of his villages". Who is this Doro? Who is the woman? Why doesn't she
have a name?
Now, if Octavia had dropped using the notion of what seed villages are and
never referred to them again in the book, she would have done the reader a
disservice. The reader would have been wondering about it to no purpose,
distracting from the rest of the story.
But she did not. Seed villages (whatever they are, I know but you don't
unless you've read the book) are central to the entire plot of the book.
Thus it is with "militancy council". You used it. If it's important to the
story, it's a good usage. Used properly, it will hook us in. But leave new
words and new usages unexplained carefully.
Here's the first two paragraphs.
"Doro discovered the woman by accident when he went to see what was left of
one of his seed villages. The village was a comfortable mud-walled place
surrounded by grasslands and scattered trees. But Doro realized even before
he reached it that its people were gone. Slavers had been to it before him.
With their guns and their greed, they had undone in a few hours the work of
a thousand years. Those villagers they had not herded away, they had
slaughtered. Doro found human bones, hair, bits of desiccated flesh missed
by scavengers. He stood over a very small skeleton—the bones of a child —and
wondered where the survivors had been taken. Which country or New World
colony? How far would he have to travel to find the remnants of what had
been a healthy, vigorous people?
Finally, he stumbled away from the ruins bitterly angry, not knowing or
caring where he went. It was a matter of pride with him that he protected
his own. Not the individuals, perhaps, but the groups. They gave him their
loyalty, their obedience, and he protected them.
He had failed.
"
See the rest of the hooks that she sets? How could Doro know the people were
gone before he reached it? What work of a thousand years was he referring
to. How did he know it was slavers that did it?
Also note how much of the millieu she gives us with the prhase "New World"
colony"... all of a sudden we have ratcheted down in setting, this has to be
Africa and the period somewhere between 1500 and 1800. She did that with
just three words.
Also... don't be afraid of short sentences. Or of short words. Excerpting
again, here is the entire third paragraph:
"He had failed."
Full stop. That's it. 3 words. But what powerful words, especially after the
first two paragraphs had lots of words in them!
I highly recommend _The Wild Seed_ as an interesting and engaging book in
its own right but it's quite instructive to read it and see how the author
did things.
That's good advice in general. Go read what you like. But read it with a
critical eye. Why do you like it? What was the author doing to draw you in?
Where did the author flub up? Where did it drag? And so on.
++Lar
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Story crafting (was Re: Please read this!
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| (...) I'm going to fix the dialogue first, then work on the rest of the specifics. (...) Avoid it all costs so the reader can figure it out, then. Noted. (...) Ah, this sounds pretty fun, actually. Why make an enemy obvious when in fact, they would (...) (22 years ago, 24-Dec-02, to lugnet.publish)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Story crafting (was Re: Please read this!
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| (...) Very well. (...) Okay, I'm working on that and a small index. (...) Hmm...you've got a point there. Perhaps I was trying to convey that he was rather evasive (?) Evasive to reveal his opinion? (...) Hmm...okay, the clouds were almost shaped (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.publish)
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