Subject:
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Re: Bible as a literal source? was Re: Should AFOL websites keep to themselves?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 13 Apr 2007 16:07:49 GMT
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Viewed:
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3969 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Timothy Gould wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Chris Phillips wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Timothy Gould wrote:
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--snip--
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Perhaps next time you can try answering the question with something other
than a joke (hopefully). Although answering questions might show that the
majority of your argument is constructed out of
straw.
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Actually, that was a serious response. If you believe the account in
Genesis, language was designed to keep us apart. Read the story,
comprehend what it says, and then see if it sheds any light on your
bafflement as to why “some people have a problem with the type of language
used by others.”
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I was going to say nothing in response to your response and I will leave
out the rest of it but...
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Convenient how you “missed these other points out.”
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Not convenience, I’d already
said I would: “PS. And in
the absence of any sort of addition to the argument from you I will let you
have your last word and bow out. While trading insults with you is amusing
it’s polite to leave it off Lugnet. You’re welcome to continue by email or on
JLUG.”
The absence was there. I did respond to the point about the bible because I
misunderstood in my earlier response that it was meant seriously.
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I just can’t believe that you seriously expect me to
take the writings in Genesis as part of a logical argument. I really can’t.
I’m not Christian, Chris. I’ve got no intention of becoming Christian and
if I ever did become Christian I still wouldn’t believe that Genesis was a
literal account of history.
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You don’t have to be Christian to believe the Old Testament. And you don’t
have to believe that it is a literal account of history to recognize that
the books of the Bible contain certain truths.
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I’ve no doubts they contain certain truths. I have immense doubts that they
have any bearing on linguistics or socio-linguistics.
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Very few people that I know
believe that the Universe was created in six days, yet the sequence
described is very likely how the process unfolded.
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Considering that it can be interpreted in all sorts of ways I’m not surprised
it can be interpreted that way. It can also be interpreted quite differently.
Here’s the first day:
“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was
without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the
Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.”
By most cosmological accounts the Earth was created an awfully long time
after the universe.
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I don’t see any timeline in that quotation that precludes “the beginning” from
spanning a very, very long time.
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“And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.”
Here’s a problem. The stars were created before the planets and the stars are
the source of light. Bit of a mistake here.
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It doesn’t actually say there was no light anywhere, it only says that the earth
was without form and in darkness. The “mistake there” may well be your own
error of comprehension.
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“And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let
it divide the waters from the waters.”
It seems far more likely to me (although I’m not a planetologist) that the
water formed oceans in between the continents than the other way around. It
strikes me as unlikely that the Earth was formed as a perfect spheroid.
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Where does it say anything about a perfect spheroid? It strikes me as unlikely
that the Earth would ever be formed in the first place, whether spheroid, cube,
or mobius strip. And yet, here we are, living on a planet which is (within a
small degree of tolerance) spherical.
According to geologists, the Earth formed as a ball of gas that was ejected from
the sun as the solar system was forming. As it cooled, it would have become
liquid before it became solid. So there were likely “oceans” before there was
“land.”
And a “day” is defined as the time it takes for the Earth to complete one
rotation around its axis. So taken literally, before the Earth existed there
were no “days” regardless of how much time may have elapsed. Under that
interpretation, the Earth literally was created “on the first day.”
The point I was making is not whether it is possible to twist the vague words in
Genesis to support an argument. It was that it is possible to be inspired to
see a truth, even from a fictional source. After all, you’ve been using the
fictional 1984 as the foundation of your arguments. That (in itself) doesn’t
invalidate your arguments, does it?
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Whether you view these writings as literal truths or as fairy tales, there
is much in the old books that corresponds precisely with the little that is
known about the course of human history. I don’t believe in The Big Bad
Wolf, but I still see how that tale could be rooted in actual events. And I
can still draw useful lessons from those stories, even if I don’t take them
literally.
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You weren’t asking me to take a lesson from Genesis, you were quoting it as a
“historical record from the early days of mankind” while allowing disbelief
(thanks for the option, I’ll happily take you up on it).
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Given that Genesis was written down by humans who presumably had no access to
satellite imagery, seismic sensors, or many other tools of modern science, I
think it’s pretty darn amazing that it is even remotely plausible. Especially
when you also consider that it was most likely passed down for generations as a
verbal (not written) account, and that it has gone through countless
translations over time.
I would happily defer to any alternative historical record from that time
period. You got nothing? Yeah, I suspected as much.
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Bible as a literal source?
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| (...) You obviously miss my point. I'm not arguing that my interpretation is the correct interpretation, merely that I can construct an interpretation of Genesis that disagrees with the facts as we know (insofar as we know anything) them. (...) If (...) (17 years ago, 13-Apr-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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