Subject:
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Re: Custom Space: Obsidian Stealth Strike Craft for sale - The Brickee Mart
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 15 Dec 2004 02:13:50 GMT
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Daniel Rubin wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Douglas R. Clark wrote:
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more snip-age
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If the creation of the first designer was not an original idea; instead,
either a scale model of a “real-life” object or a fictional setting/vehicle
not of the MOCer’s original design then MOC creator does not have IP rights.
I am reminded of this argument over
selling a GunStar MOC that closely mimic-ed a previous GunStar MOC. In this
instance I believe that the seller would not have to obtain permission from
the first MOC’s creator. Instead the seller would have to obtain the
permission of the film company who created the movie “The Last Starfighter”,
not unlike the way Lego had to obtain a license from Lucasfilm to produce
and sell an X-wing set.
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The above is somewhat mistaken. While selling, or theoretically creating, a
moc based on a Gunstar would require the permission of the ownere (the movie
company most likely) this doesn’t mean that the first MOC maker doesn’t also
have IP here. The first MOC maker still own’s his/her design, as an
expression of the Gunstar property owned by the movie company. There are
plenty of ways to build a Gunstar MOC, so one particular design can still be
protectable IP.
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Thanks for the info. I guess I was considering that a moot point since neither
one of them had obtained the film company’s permission first. I think that is
something worth discussing since to achieve the end result of a “movie accurate”
gunstar MOC in minifig scale might lead two independent designers to very
similar implementations given the nature of lego construction. I guess the
question I’m trying to ask is how the concept of “independant discovery” plays
against IP rights?
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I’m not sure how it would work for “real-life” vehicles/objects. I would
think that Lego had to obtain a license to produce the Ferrari sets, but
would it be necessary to obtain a license from Boeing to produce and sell a
B-52 kit?? This is where an IP lawyer would be useful.
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Lego had to, and did aquire Ferrari lisences. Yes, you would need Boeing’s
permission to create a B-52 kit. Things could get sticky in court, and you
could probably fend off a suit from Boeing if they sued you, if you could
prove that the appearance of the B-52 was in no way designed for aesthetic
purposes... This would make a good IP exam question actually...
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I’m not sure I understand this. If I want to make and sell a MOC named “B-52” I
could as long as it looked nothing like a “real B-52 as built by the Boeing
Co.“? However if I wanted to market a scale model of a B-52 rendered in lego
elements then legally I would have to obtain Boeing’s permission (even if I
called it large 8-engined bomber instead of B-52)? What are the limits on IP
rights? Can I create and sell a minifig scale MOC of a P-51 mustang with out
seeking permission from whatever company ended up aquiring North American
Aviation? When do “real-life” items that I would like to model and sell as kits
become “public domain?”
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The next extension to this question is when a person actually creates
his/her own theme such as Chris Gidden’s PCS line or Mark Sandlin’s 3vil
line. Most people here think it is pretty cool if someone else attempts to
create and post a PCS or 3vil MOC. However if someone tries to sell a PCS
or 3vil MOC I would say you would need permission from the theme’s creators
first. For example, I have a SpacePoliceII MOC that is one of my original
creations. I would have to obtain permission from Lego to sell it as a SPII
MOC since Lego still owns the copyright to the SPII theme.
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In terms of good form, and peace in the community, I agree, but, I’m not sure
this is really true. You can’t own a visual style, it has to be a more
specific design than that. Of course, the theme names, and logos are all
ownable IP.
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Thats what I meant. If I created and tried to sell a MOC titled “3vil
hoverskull” that would be a problem. Assuming I didn’t use any logos or other
3vil specific insignia, I could create a hoverskull MOC and sell it as a
“generic hoverskull MOC”.
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Disclaimer: I haven’t finished lawschool yet, but I am specializing in IP,
and have some experience in IP practice. Like any legal issue, all the issues
raised here could be debated ad naseum, and any of these cases would have to
be resolved in court, or settled out of court, on an individual basis.
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Well, I would rather hear from someone who is training in this area of law
rather than myself who can only really let common-sense and morality be my
guide.
thanks,
drc
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